Virginia Tech, Suicide And World Of Warcraft
By William on Thursday, January 24th, 2008 at 1:09 AM PST In Gamer Life, Games, World of Warcraft
Last month, a Virginia Tech student was found dead in the Target parking lot of the Christiansburg, Virginia store with a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. His name was Daniel Kim, a 21-year old senior at the university. Unfortunately, some individuals have already started making assumptions that somehow his death was related to and possibly caused by gaming.
After doing a little research, I discovered that gaming is actually the one thing in his life that gave him a chance to live. Daniel was an avid Warcraft player who had developed numerous friendships playing the game over the past couple of years. The only warning signs that he was on the edge came in the form of emails sent to the university from various WoW players who were concerned for his safety. Unfortunately, little action was taken from the warnings and as we all know, Daniel Kim is now dead.
This was an unfortunate and probably preventable tragedy. It’s also unfortunate that some people will try to blame games when gaming may have been the only positive thing going on in his life. Online multiplayer games have a social aspect that the media simply does not understand. You create bonds with people you have never seen in real life. When it’s the middle of the night and there’s no one to talk to in person, there’s always a gamer somewhere online who will talk. When things are heavy on my mind, I often fire up the Xbox 360 and play some “big team battle” with my Halo 3 friends. I’ve never met any of them in real life, but I consider them true friends. I think one of the major problems with the media right now is that they simply do not see the overall kindness and generosity most gamers have in their hearts. As gamers, we do talk a lot of smack, but that’s honestly part of the fun. In the end, I truly believe that most hard-core gamers are good people with kind natures.
To be honest, I can’t objectively tackle the subject of video games and Virginia Tech at the same time. I was enraged that people such as Jack Thompson blamed the April 16 massacre on gaming when I was there and I saw what happened. I lost a good friend that day and I suppose that makes me take these media attacks personally. When you see large collections of lifeless bodies lying in pools of blood, you just don’t think of what to blame. There are more important issues at hand. Perhaps the media is simply too far detached from the reality of life to understand these tragedies. It did not surprise me that some people are voicing their opinions that gaming was somehow behind this recent suicide in the Hokie community.
Daniel Kim was an avid World of Warcraft player. He didn’t leave much behind in life. The only clues come from the traces of information from his instant messenger and Warcraft files. He left a cell phone behind with many numbers in them, but no one really knows what happened. I’m sure he’ll be missed by his WoW comrades. It was great that some of his Warcraft friends made attempts to contact the university asking for someone to help him. I think this situation shows how video game communities often care about each other more than we realize. It’s just a shame no one followed up on the emails the way they should have.
You are really, really a huge dick. Which leads me to believe you MUST have a very small one. What the hell is your problem? Minors don’t get hold of games. They don’t. They don’t. THEY DON’T. So why are you still hanging around? GTFO.
Besides, you don’t care what anyone says, you have your (ridiculous) opinion, your idiotic crusade, and you don’t listen to a damn thing anyone else says. WHY ARE YOU HERE? You’re going to lose. Gaming is NOT going anywhere.
obvious troll is obvious.
couldn’t have said it better myself rick
RON PAUL /b/!!!!!!
but seriously speaking now….why would anyone of you get offended about any of this if you are over 18? All that Jack is trying to do is prevent minors from buying M-rated games behind mommy and daddy’s back. And besides, we all know how annoying teens are in VoIP-enabled multiplayer games
This could be a good thing for the gaming industry.
It’s a fact of life now that parents don’t want to be parents anymore. When parents don’t do shit anymore, government needs to step in and do the “parenting” work instead. It sucks indeed, but without any intervention, who the hell knows what these teeny-boppers will be doing.
Re parents being parents: Pay attention: The whole issue is whether stores should sell Mature games to kids when their parents are not there! I have a fifteen year old. I would be very upset if Best Buy sold GTA to my son without me there. Deal with it. That is the issue, not your silly fake issue of parental responsibility. We’re talking about corporate responsibility.
Evidently you did not read the rest of my comment, please read the rest of my comment; and focus more on the issue, not bashing people thanks.
Dear Moron: Of course it’s an illegal substance. Adult entertainment material sold to minors is done so illegally as well. That’s he point, e-tard, which is why libertarians like you are irrelevant.
Actually you are encouraging to take an illegal substance, I don’t think corporations say minors should buy mature rated games; You really place things out of context. If you are in fact a lawyer, this is a sad display of your behavior. Then again I don’t even know why I should waste a Milli second replying to you since you are the common internet troll.
I’d just like to put it out there, for all that research on video games make people violent-
I’ve watched and play the original Doom since I WAS SIX YEARS OLD
I’ve played and seen just about every violent game out there, including Grand Theft Series, Call of Duty, Quake, Half-life, too many to list.
I’m 18 now and I’ve never been in a fight, never shot anyone, never hurt anyone, I have a completly clean record….
Not exactly sure where all this violence stuff is coming from, but I can say that video games have never influenced me, I don’t care what any “expert” says.
To Parents who “want games to be rated”
DO RESEARCH MY PARENTS DID IT. IT IS POSSIBLE. Stop being lazy, you signed up for the job when you conceived, we live in a modern world, STOP BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR MISTAKES.
I couldn’t agree more with the author of this article, nice job it was a great read!
As a long time (8 year) guild leader i’ve dealt with a number of suicidal individuals. Luckily during their time with the guild we never lost any. How they’re doing now? I unfortunatly can’t tell you. The reality is that there are a lot of unhappy people in the world. The great thing about gaming is that it provides a safe(r) environment for them to reach out, seek help and expand their social network.
I recently did my thesis on video games influence on the “real” world. While I didn’t talk about suicide i did get into a lot of the amazing benefits which no one touches on. Instead of going on about it here, i’ll just post it as it includes a lot of what i’d regurgitate here.
http://www.alex-berger.net/Not%20Just%20A%20Game%20-%20Thesis.pdf
Did he drop any good loot?
I played counter-strike since beta 4. If anyone know how long that is, then you can have something to say. I use to play almost 6-10 hours a day, every day if not more when I was growing up. I still play on and off but nowadays i mostly play wow, and spend time with the wife. I have a ton of friends that all played as well.
None of us have ever committed felonies, or misdemeanors or have had to spend any time in jail. A person could just be a messed up person who happened to play games.
I’ll admit there is a huge difference in the mentalities of individuals in MMOS, and FPS. More often you will find the caring and helping gamers in an mmo, then in a FPS.
Jack Thompson, Attorney,
I used to play Counter-Strike obsessively in high school, and the only people I’ve killed are cops! So, it’s not a bad thing, silly.
And If Jack Thompson on here really is Jack Thompson…
I may not agree with everything you say, but I will admit I do give you some credit for showing up on boards like this and defending your stance.
Again, I do not agree with everything you say, but I will agree the ESRB ratings don’t really mean much if parents, children, and retailers do not abide by them.
All right. You game-tards win for once. I’ll concede, Warcraft may have helped this kid in a very small way. While I’ll agree to disagree on the subjects of violence and sexuality, the social aspects of gaming are one that I think, if expounded upon, are actually quite redeeming. We need more games like Wii bowling, as long as they don’t suck your lives away with their addictive 9-pin simulations.
Also, I’m in love with Jerry Holkins and it is rumored I like wang.
Jack, you make it very clear that you have found your life’s issue, and nothing anyone shows you that runs contrary to your already established beliefs will alter your opinions. Congrats on finding your calling. Unfortunatly those beliefs cause you to also believe that government involvement and regulation are the only solutions to the problem, which as far as I can tell is not really a problem at all.
Jack: Please provide some sort of link to any documentation that shows we actually have a significant problem that requires the use of courts and incarceration to solve.
Unlike you, I am willing to keep an open mind and allow my opinion to change under new evidence. I am hereby giving you a chance to present such evidence.
Don’t just tell my about a study, show me the study. Please demonstrate that A) there is a significant problem with people of any age running amok all hopped up on violent video games, B) that your prosposed solution has any historical or other emperical evidence demonstrating that it will work the way you say it will, and C) how the government or society as a whole has more of a right or duty to determine what children “should or should not see” than their parents.
If you can not demonstrate any or all of these points, I will continue to consider your opinion as little more than the exagerated rantings of a sad little man who must have gotten his ass handed to him in Pong by someone half his age and has held a personal grudge against all games ever since.
Of course you can always continue insulting us instead, as we all know that will invariably win people over to your way of seeing things.
– D. Sanders: Parent, Tax-payer, and Gamer.
Hey Jack(ass) Thompson.
Put a gun in a psycho’s hand, give him nothing to live for or make him mad, he will shoot someone, wether he plays video games or not.
By your arguements you might as well include the Army, they do violent stuff, they shoot and kill people, sometimes cops do as well. Are they going to kill a bunch of innocent people on campus? OH wait, thats right, they didn’t shoot guns in a video game, thats the requirement here, right?
I think you just have a grudge against video games or something, whats wrong, couldn’t beat the Donkey Kong record? Did Weibe get to you?
btw Jack, stop trolling, I didn’t know you were as avid digg reader!
The problem, as I see it, is not with online games in and of themselves. The problem is that for SOME people they become a substitute for a real life with real friends. Ultimately one discovers that they are living a lonely illusion and, for the most fragile of us, can lead to unfortunate choices. Just my .02, FWIW. RIP, Daniel Kim.
since when is World of Warcraft rated M?
Who cares? Seriously, no one cares. At least the guy had the decency to go out without taking other people out with him.
Dear Mr. Thompson,
While reading the responses to this post, I have found that after you introduced yourself and your views, people started to verbally attack you. I apologize in their stead for their rudeness. That being said, the moment you started to call them names brought you down to their level. As man of Christ, one would believe that you would try to be patient for those who attack you, practicing the famous “turning the other cheek”. If you choose to claim that your motivations are pure, I wish that you try to peaceful and diplomatic in your aims and cause.
I myself play games, some are violent, some are not. However this does not make me a violent person. This is true for many people. I hope this fact does not cause you to disregard my message. Granted, there are people who have difficulty determining what is real and what is not. These people have a fundamental problem with their perception of the world, and should be helped. Others enjoy all kinds of entertainment in their own homes, and if children are playing games that society deems inappropriate, in a free and democratic society, the parents should be the ones who choose how to react. Both sides of this can argue until the cows come home about how we should treat this new form of media. However, we cannot deny at the end of the day, it is the parents prerogative to raise their own children how they see fit, not the state (to an extent of course). You, Mr. Thompson, enjoyed this right while raising your own children, so I hope that you do not wish to revoke that right from other parents.
It is my personal goal to become a lawyer, and eventually a politician to serve this country that I love. Your eye-for-an-eye reactions to others’ criticisms and name-calling is a disservice to your cause and your profession.
May the love of humanity guide you.
Jack,
I’m concerned about your approach – there is no reason to call people e-tards. Especially if you want to pretend to be a influential political figure that brings about change. After reading your little bio on Wikipedia (which made me dislike you even more) things started to make a little more sense. It is people like you that polarize America and limit our freedoms, all for personal ambition and some self-righteous drive. Why you think you are morally superior to other people (like Howard Stern or e-tards) is another issue however. I just don’t understand why people like you need to draw on statistical evidence (which in my professional career I’ve learned I can make statistics say anything I want them to say – ask the tobacco industry) to push a moral agenda that limits the freedoms of others. If you don’t like video games, don’t buy them for your children (for some reason I bet you have some pretty screwed up kids, if you have kids). If you don’t like rap videos or rap music, don’t let your children watch them or listen to them. If you have no control over your children, maybe you should rethink your parental approach.
The point is, in order to protect and maintain personal freedoms that we Americans love (and rapidly losing), we need to accept there is a certain level of self-accountability both on the parents and the individual in question. It is not up to Big Brother, lobbyists, or Jack Thompson – Attorney (you spelled your name wrong in your last posting) to make sure no one’s feelings get hurt or to protect us from ourselves. There are too many of us in the world anyway.
In closing, Jack, why don’t you relax in Florida, sit on the beach, and complain about the teenagers that drive too fast and disturb the public with their loud rap music. Children had respect for their elders when you were growing up, right?
But those were the good ol’ days when they spent their time outside playing cowboys and indians, which had no racial, social, or violent undertones.
“I’ve never met any of them in real life, but I consider them true friends”. That’s the most pathetic thing I’ve ever read.
Go Retribution!!!
Come on guys read his last post, its a troll…
“Also, I’m in love with Jerry Holkins and it is rumored I like wang.”
Yeah… right…
did he drop good loots?
I agree it’s right to limit certain titles, depending on subject matter, to certain age groups. However, we do have to give our children some credit. If you have done your job correctly as a parent, and you child has no previous underlying problems with extreme depression or school issues (and is mentally stable), then your child does have the brains enough to take (some things) as fictional opposed to reality.
Again, that depends on the child, and in the end it is the parent’s responsibility to monitor what their children are doing. Secondly, If you own something (a mature game) you do not want anyone to find (especially a young child) it is not impossible to keep said child from reaching those items. It just takes a little more effort on the parent’s part. It seems like today’s parents are expecting the world to be as wholesome as it was in the 60’s. It’s not, and as things change in our world, it will only get more difficult to monitor and do what’s best for our children.
In the end, we can’t always assume that because a person plays a certain game, they’re killers. Part of the human consciousness is distinguishing reality from fantasy, and if your children do not have such an ability, then perhaps it is the fault of the parent. Children should be taught at a young age that “this is fake”
The alternative is to take away the video games entirely, which would cause a public uproar, and cause much more violence. It seems that this whole battle is a double-edged sword. The media is complaining about something they cannot change.
“Facts are overrated BS, Junior. Hooah!” – Jack Thompson
“Belgium is not in the Netherlands!” – Jack Thompson
That’s an e-tard
I bet he bought the weapon and did it right there. Poor guy. Video games add happiness to people’s lives but sometimes it seems to get in the way of solving problems. It’s an escape, like alcohol or anything else. There is nothing wrong with it but doing it all the time is bad. The problem is WoW promotes too much play. You have to play all the time to keep up.
http://www.spymac.com/details/?2331523
whoever things violent games promotes real life violence is a MORON. Yes I said MORON. I play violent games all the time, Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Call of Duty 4, and many others. Do I feel the need to go out and shoot people? NO. I’m probably one of the most laid back, mellow person you’ll ever meet. There is a reason for this. I DON’T HAVE A MENTAL DISABILITY. I’m not saying the people that go off and shoot up a school are retarded, but there is something not working correctly in their brain. If they didn’t have video games, I’m 100% positive that something else would send them off the deep end. I know if I had a disposition to be violent that the long lines in a bank, or someone cutting me off on the highway would make me snap.
Jack Thompson is my hero! like http://www.WOWOMG.com !!!
Dear Jack Thompson,
I would say about 90% of my friends and family, between the ages of 16 and 28, across the nation (yes.. ones I have met IRL (”in real life”, if you don’t know)) play video games; whether it be online, on the “seXbox”, Playstation, DS, or Wii. Thank God you said something about video games linking to violence! I’ll have to make sure none of my friends accidentally take me for a Chimera, a member of the Covenant, Heartless, or an infamous Mushroom Head from Mushroom Kingdom!
Please. Are you going to say that violent films contribute to violent behavior as well? Because that’s basically what a video game is – an interactive movie. Individuals choose the games they want to play and the movies they want to see. If you want to talk about something children shouldn’t see, go watch a snuff film.
What we expose ourselves to is our own choice. Moreover, it is our own personal choice what we do with our lives. If somebody is going to commit suicide or kill dozens of people, you can’t blame a piece of plastic and a screen for that. I’d love to hear a sociologist’s point of view on the matter. I’m sure somewhere between the family and social factors they could completely obliterate your stand-point. Learn to be more objective with things.
Also, get your head out of your ass.
At the end of the day I will never take notice of idiots like Jack who believe video games cause people to become violent.
It’s easy to create a scapegoat. It’s harder to find the real truth behind tragedies such as this.
This Jack dude can’t be serious can he? Surely he is just pulling our leg? Please someone tell me he doesn’t truly believe this drivel!
I don’t even post here but WOW is that Thompson guy ever a bore.
No surprise he’s a lawyer, definitely picked the right profession.
And I co-sign the small wang.
@loot
No! 4 strength 4 stam leather belt!
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0eCoEI5pN8E
could it be just due to the social environment at Virginia Tech?
doesnt it seem like too much of a coincidence that two people from the same school are involved in shootings and/or suicides?
Yeah, uh…Mr. “Thompson”…its really going to score you a lot of points with people you are debating when you are using epithets to describe the people are you arguing with. Using words like “e-tards” and “gamer-tards” is really mature and goes a long way to show your credibility.
I can’t believe you guys think that’s Jack Thompson. It’s clearly a troll, and you all are buying into it.
Excellent trolling, though. The finest of quality.
I sure as hell don’t think its Jack Thompson, but yeah like you said, good job at trolling you get +10 AP.
And if he is or not….I said the flames would come……
I feel this was a genuinely good article that I can get behind. It is good to see that someone who plays games write an article like this. I feel the same way as when there is no one else around I can always find comfort in knowing a ton of people are playing Call of Duty 4 at any time. I know, I for one, have a good heart, I feel. I agree that gamers do have good hearts when you break down that exterior most have that they are better than you. Usually when they get out of that teen angst stage they are more willing to be decent people sooner than later. It is a shame that Kim took his own life. But I’ve been down that path, I know what it is like when you have no one around to talk to and you feel things are hopeless. I still have battles with it. Sometimes friendship comes in strange forms and if WoW was his social life, then that is good. It’s just a shame no one saw the signs early enough to prevent the tragedy.
Wow, and I don’t mean in terms of World of Warcraft. I’m astounded at how you guys all think that’s really Jack Thompson. Did anyone notice his last little bit about how he liked wang? Sheesh. Besides, we all know that Jack Thompson has never accomplished anything, which means he has no right to speak to the public about what should be done (besides the fact that he’s supposedly talking to us on an internet comment board!). That really is some quality trolling though, it might be the first time I’ve ever had some respect for a troll.
College students commit suicide at a much higher rate than most people know. It’s silly to pin it to one cause. It’s also HIGHLY disrespectful to the victim and his/her family.
It’s somewhat sensational and sadly opportunistic to make the connection between violence in gaming and tragic cases of young people committing suicide. What did you expect though? The world is lacking true journalists that report facts and leave interpretation to the reader.
Sad.
Wow,
It actually is Jack Thompson. When comments come in, we see the IP. He’s actually a regular visitor on our site from time to time.
A well informed parent would know that all of the latest game consoles can be set to NOT PLAY M RATED GAMES. It doesn’t take being with your child every second of the day to do your own research about parenting, and stop them before they start playing.
BTW, I LOVE the term “e-tard”. Almost made me shit my pants.
Well here is my honest to goodness really name Mr.Thompson and though i agree that GTA being sold to a ten year old is bad and should not happen kids can absorb violence from a number of different outlets in the media, Your average PG-13 action movie has some violent death scenes and showcase how cool guns are, why not attack them. Same goes for TV they have shows readily avalable for anyone to watch that also show people using guns in cool action sequences.
Also It is partly the buisness’s responsibility to not sell MA games to minors but the other part is clearly the parent. Anyone who truly cares what their kids are playing will be able to find out by just looking at thier xbox 360 achievements or look more closely at the game they are playing on the TV set. Also what the hell happened to some people just being crazy? Why cant these psycho’s who shoot up schools just maybe not be right in the head? If something like a videogame is able to tip you to the point where you are capable of killing your own classmates there is something mentally wrong with you already and it could have just as easily been a violent movie or tv show. Also Mr.Thompson acting like your 10 with your comments does not help your cause at all because you are condemming the comments they make to you yet find it ok to respond in the same way. I think the underlying issue here is that these kids in most cases have shown warning signs or people they knew reported these signs and they were largely ignored, maybe if they take those more seriously this would not being happening as often as it does.
Where to start…
This thread is hilarious. I can’t remember how I got here, after working tonight painting my kitchen. I’m now enjoying a late nite beverage and a little well earned relaxation and random surfing.
I’m 37. I love GTA. Its also disturbingly violent. Whatever. In my opinion, there’s certainly a place for a voice of caution in the distribution of psychopathic simulation software, especially given that it gets better and better.
On the other hand, maybe a man who presents himself as an obsessive pompous asshole isn’t the best man to lead that cause. Again, whatever.
But really the reason I chose to actually join this throng is the senseless suggestion that Virginia Tech should be considered as the root cause of two shootings. That is, TWO shootings. While we’re jumping to idiotic reckless conclusions, let’s also jump on the fact that both incidents involved Asians, they were both male, and neither one has ever been in my kitchen — all equally baseless and moronic suggestions. Two incidents is not a trend, and is certainly not a reasonable basis to pile on a community that endured an extraordinarily horrific tragedy less than a year ago.
Have you ever been to Virginia Tech? I can’t imagine a college setting that could be LESS an incubator of gun violence or suicidal/homicidal tendencies. Although I’m certainly willing to listen, if you can produce more compelling evidence than a two point data set.
My gaming history.
Age 3. Played Super Mario Bros. couldn’t get passed the 3rd lvl.
Age 4. My uncled tore my heart our in Mortal Kombat. My respone “How’d you do that?!”
Age 5 – 13. Played the most violent video games out there, from all the Mortal Kombats, Twisted Metals, and War Crafts.
Age 14 – 17 Became boarderline obsesed with Halo, Rainbow 6, and starcraft. (Read all the halo novels btw, great works
)
Age 18 – Now. World of Warcraft begins, along with the new Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Assasin’s Creed.
The person writing this is creative, sneaky, cunning, nice, wise, lazy, athletic, and a tree hugger. He’s also quite the liar as well.
You see, gamers aren’t different. We’re saints and jerks, just like everyone else. Just because someone commited an act of violence, does not mean video games were involved with pushing said person to that point. You see people getting shot in Philadelpha and New Jersey every damned night, and you think video games are the problem? You sir, need to wise up, and look at the big pictue.
Jack,
Firstly, drop the e-tard, game-tard thing. It is the behaviour of an immature child and is not proving a point to anyone. Also, I remind you of the medium in which you are currently using to communicate. E-tard seems slightly inappropriate.
Second of all, it appears to me that your issue is with the sale of games to underage people. I think we would all agree with this. The game is not the issue, it’s the retailers. Take them on and more power to you – in fact I would happily join you in this crusade.
Number three, games are not just for children. In fact, a recent study in Australia showed that the average age of a gamer in Australia is 28. I can provide you with a link if you are interested. This is important. I’m an adult and a gamer. My partner is a adult and a gamer. We both work full-time, have a house, have an active social life and my partner is a volunteer at Royal Flying Docters every second Sunday.
Finally, if you are interested in a productive, open dialoge with gamers, you will recieve one. If you want to make changes, you need to convince the gamers. They have an amazing power over games companies. However, first you must treat us with respect, listen to conflicting points of view and make judgements on fact and inbput from numerous sources, not just on emotion.
If you are interested in any of the above, I would be astonded and respectful. If not, you can continue your pointless and unsuccessful ranting at your leasure. You may not, however, say that the gaming community has not reached out to you.
Brad