Virginia Tech, Suicide And World Of Warcraft
Posted by William on Thursday, January 24th, 2008 at 1:09 am under Gamer Life, World of Warcraft, Games
Tagged: christiansburg virginia, daniel kim, gunshot to the head, multiplayer games, virginia store, virginia tech and warning signs
Last month, a Virginia Tech student was found dead in the Target parking lot of the Christiansburg, Virginia store with a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. His name was Daniel Kim, a 21-year old senior at the university. Unfortunately, some individuals have already started making assumptions that somehow his death was related to and possibly caused by gaming.
After doing a little research, I discovered that gaming is actually the one thing in his life that gave him a chance to live. Daniel was an avid Warcraft player who had developed numerous friendships playing the game over the past couple of years. The only warning signs that he was on the edge came in the form of emails sent to the university from various WoW players who were concerned for his safety. Unfortunately, little action was taken from the warnings and as we all know, Daniel Kim is now dead.
This was an unfortunate and probably preventable tragedy. It’s also unfortunate that some people will try to blame games when gaming may have been the only positive thing going on in his life. Online multiplayer games have a social aspect that the media simply does not understand. You create bonds with people you have never seen in real life. When it’s the middle of the night and there’s no one to talk to in person, there’s always a gamer somewhere online who will talk. When things are heavy on my mind, I often fire up the Xbox 360 and play some “big team battle” with my Halo 3 friends. I’ve never met any of them in real life, but I consider them true friends. I think one of the major problems with the media right now is that they simply do not see the overall kindness and generosity most gamers have in their hearts. As gamers, we do talk a lot of smack, but that’s honestly part of the fun. In the end, I truly believe that most hard-core gamers are good people with kind natures.
To be honest, I can’t objectively tackle the subject of video games and Virginia Tech at the same time. I was enraged that people such as Jack Thompson blamed the April 16 massacre on gaming when I was there and I saw what happened. I lost a good friend that day and I suppose that makes me take these media attacks personally. When you see large collections of lifeless bodies lying in pools of blood, you just don’t think of what to blame. There are more important issues at hand. Perhaps the media is simply too far detached from the reality of life to understand these tragedies. It did not surprise me that some people are voicing their opinions that gaming was somehow behind this recent suicide in the Hokie community.
Daniel Kim was an avid World of Warcraft player. He didn’t leave much behind in life. The only clues come from the traces of information from his instant messenger and Warcraft files. He left a cell phone behind with many numbers in them, but no one really knows what happened. I’m sure he’ll be missed by his WoW comrades. It was great that some of his Warcraft friends made attempts to contact the university asking for someone to help him. I think this situation shows how video game communities often care about each other more than we realize. It’s just a shame no one followed up on the emails the way they should have.
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January 24th, 2008 at 4:08 am
you know who I blame for articles like these?
video games.
We'd never have articles in defense of video games, if there weren't any video games.
also, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:45 am
yeah I guess that's right. It really sucks that we have to defend video games, but it's all part of the media game. I think the gaming media really needs to voice their opinions on the subject whenever possible. I really have no clue what the right answers are.. the media battle that takes place over almost every subject gets old after a while, but it has to be talked about.
January 24th, 2008 at 5:51 am
In fact, Cho, according to the Washington Post, was an obsessive player of Counter-Strike in high school. The effects of these games are LONG-TERM, not just short-term, as the scientific evidence proves.
Also, the hard drive of Cho's computer was never found, so you have no earthly basis for which to say that he didn't continue to play violent games. None. His suite mates had no idea he had weapons in his room, either.
So you can be as enraged as you want about the link between violent video games and what Cho and others like him have done. Go rage at a full moon as well, convinced that it is Satan's orb to raise the seas.
Next time, before you post such a silly set of assertions, actually read the medical, scientific, and law enforcement research. It establishes, irrefutably, the causal link between violent games and acts of violence.
So sue me. Jack Thompson
January 24th, 2008 at 7:39 am
The link between violent games and acts of violence is extremely casual at best. The entire argument around gaming causes violence is pointless. The argument more or less is one that completely removes individual accountability from the factors. And believe me, I know more about the VT investigation than most of the public. I have also researched the topic to a great extent. There is not one single valid scientific study linking playing violent games to acts of violence.
When it comes to individuals who commit horrible crimes like Cho did, there are hundreds of factors that helped push him over the edge. His family life, his mental illnesses and social factors had the biggest impact. If you want to talk about media influencing him, you can mention the Columbine coverage as a very big factor in his decisions, so are you going to blame the news for covering news?
The Washington Post articles on Cho are mostly misinformed. I was actually shocked at how off the press was with this entire event. The misinformation flying around was astounding.
To blame gaming for violence is like trying to blame cars for drunk driving. It makes no sense.
January 24th, 2008 at 7:45 am
You really can't base information on news reports fully these days anyway. I recall on the evening of April 16th when I finally got back to my apartment, numerous news shows were reporting that there was more than one shooter.
You really can't trust the news these days. You have to go to numerous sources and sort out the facts.
To be honest, at this point there really haven't been enough in-depth reports on this subject to claim that your point is valid. The few studies that have been done are extremely casual and not scientific.
Acts of violence tend to be brought on by dozens and hundreds of factors and games are not even close to being on the top half of the list.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Can someone provide links to these misleading press articles? I've never heard of the gaming connection with Kim until just now. (I heard he made friends through WoW, but nothing as stupid as a connection to the suicide.)
And, William, I remember the same thing from April 16; but it was the POLICE that were saying there may be more than one shooter.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:45 am
the police never said that. It's standard procedure for police to sweep for a second shooter whether there is one or not. The press just ran with misinformation.
January 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Dear Neanderthals: The American Psychological Association has established a direct causal link between violent video games and aggression. What is your counter source, a Ouia Board?
Cho's high school classmates said he was totally into Counter-Strike. Again, what is your counter source, his ghost? Grow up.
January 24th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
The APA has not established a direct casual link between violent video games and aggression. Their findings were a correlation link, not casual. Go back to high school science class and re-learn some things.
There is a huge difference between correlation and casual.
January 24th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Causal basically means that one thing caused another. That has never and will never be established. There is a relatively minor correlation between video games and violence, but it's at the tail end of a very long list of things.
January 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I'm the "moron?" GamePolitics, which was lying about the APA's only establishing a correlation, not causation, contacted the experts on the Commission that issued the report, and they confirmed that the link established was (are you ready?) "causal." Honestly, if you gamers can't read, then put down the controllers, step away from the game platforms, go back to school, and get a real education. The link established is causal, not correlationial.
Duh…
January 24th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
For every study that one side cites, there is another study that directly refutes it. There has been no proof of causality, only theoretical 'connections.' I doubt we'll ever see a study that can definitively provide the answer one way or another.
Citing studies as your sole source of proof isn't enough. I can commission a study that shows that everyone in the state of California would prefer to be turned into an eggplant, but that doesn't make it fact.
January 24th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
It's human nature for someone to look at something they think is horrible and make a imaginary link between that thing and something else horrible. Everything that we know so far about violence and violent video games are assumptions.
@Fake Jack Thompson it is also human nature to hide behind the guise of a more known entity. You are not Jack Thompson a real lawyer would not call his opposition Neanderthals and say duh.. to make a point. But i guess Jack Thompson is not a good lawyer.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
i truly doubt the REAL Jack Thompson would appear here, but if you are, sir you are a real jackass who like most lawyers in this crooked world was trained to talk out his own ass!
January 24th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Come on people! Don't feed the Troll anymore!
January 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Sadly, the true Thompson has been known to communicate via this site, and read it. And 'bella's advice is the best I've read in a while. LOL !
January 24th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I like pie
January 24th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Immediate News Release – January 24, 2008
Grand Theft Auto IV to Be Released April 29; Culture War Begins Now
The sociopaths who run Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., announced today that their Grand Theft Auto IV video game will be released April 29, 2008.
Take-Two shares have jumped approximately 12% today on this news. What the market is not factoring in, however, is the downside risk coming Take-Two’s way with the sale of this “Mature” game to kids, which is a murder simulator for violence against women, cops, and innocent bystanders. Brain scan studies at Harvard, Indiana, and Michigan State Universities prove kids process these games in a different part of the brain than do adults, and this neurobiological differential leads to copycatting behaviors, as the American Psychological Association found in 2005.
The Federal Trade Commission and private groups have found that roughly 50% of the time Mature-rated games are sold to kids of all ages who want to buy them with no parent in sight in brick and mortar stores. Indeed Best Buy, Wal-Mart, GameStop, and even Toys R Us are this very day all selling Grand Theft Auto IV via the Internet to anyone of any age with no age verification whatsoever prior to its April 29 ship date.
Take-Two is in fact pre-selling Grand Theft Auto IV directly at its own web site today with no age verification to anyone of any age, despite what will be the game’s “Mature” rating.
Miami attorney and anti-violent video game activist Jack Thompson will, in the days and weeks ahead, be contacting state and federal officials to stop the improper sales of Grand Theft Auto IV to anyone under seventeen years of age, as any such sales violate state and federal fraudulent and deceptive trade practices statutes. Indeed, Thompson has today contacted Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, who has supported Thompson’s efforts in the past.
January 24th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Dude, please.
The amount of shit going on in the world that we can see and hear in the media, the amount of shit we can read in the papers and talk about with others, the amount of shit we experience as kids and adolescents is the root of evil. Dont just forget that and say "oh yeah, he played games. that is what killed him".
It so short sighted to say such things and then expect others to accept and respect your opinion. The fact that you are a lawyer is even more of a concern, it means we live in a world where everyone can become everything without even being able to think logicaly for himself.
It's pure ignorant of you to place a blame onto something you actually dont know, simply because the subject you're talking about died with the person involved. If you didn't speak with the case subject and debate the issue on all levels, than your opinion is biased at its best.
So, please, accept the hint the other poster said. Go back to school.
Thank you.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
in FPS games when i am about to end a playing session i do about 5 suicides for kicks. like in oblivion i'll kill everyone and aggro every guard there is, or in half life 2 i'll jump off a cliff in front of alyx (OMG that's so mean!).
but ah, i will never ever ever ever EVER off myself. video games don't make me want to replicate what i'm doing in the virtual world. this is the real world. and there are real consequences. why can't these damn conservatives leave people alone? if i ever become a billionaire, i'll buy several islands for them to live on, far, far away from society. wouldn't that be nice?
January 24th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Wow. I love how ppl look at video games and see like cod4, OMG HE SHOT A GUY. get over it you know how many gamers there are and how many so called "related" deaths there are? That number is probably lower than many issues, how many drinkers and deaths are there, if u wana say video games are making violence and should be taken care of you are a freaking idiot. Look around you and stop pointing fingers at something that like many of us said, making assumptions and false statements about. We all have played CS or wow, are we now murderers and beat up old ppl? But now were frowned upon by the media cause were gamers and were so dangerous cause were now violent. Games dont bring on violence, if ur parrents beat u when u were little then ur going to be screwed up the rest of ur life. IF you play games later in life and then kill someone after being beaten, what does the finger get pointed at? I mean really its blantly obvious that games are entertainment and those who take them serious, are either biased or have mental illnesses.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
As soon as one of you gets a Ph.D. in psychology and does a longitudinal study to rebut what the APA, the largest association of psychologists in the world found about the causal link between violent games and agression, let me know.
You e-tards here have gone from saying "There is no APA study" to saying "Oh, we don't agree with it." Make up your mind. And in the meantime, put down the games and do your homework. You might actually learn something useful instead of wasting your lives on games. How sad. Jack Thompson (I do know Jack and you don't)
January 24th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Are you really him or just some stupid fuck?
E-tards? Really? Bad choice of words……let the flames begin……
And if you are not him, you do a great impression of the ignorant fool…..
January 24th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Wow, this Jack Thompson troll is really a dick!
So I assume he's just a plant by the website to get conversation going right? No one could inadvertantly be that much of a cock bag. Excepting Ann Coulter of course.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
We need to do our homework and get a phd? Yo dickhead, why dont u get ur mind out of ur own ass cause thats where it seems to be. Why dont u actually pick up a game and play it and then tell us it makes u want to hurt someone. IT DOESNT. Go back in ur think tank u dumbass
January 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
DPK, no he's not a plant.. he's real.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)
January 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
the APA also has well-known studies implying that children are more aggressive after watching Sesame Street.
This so called cultural war against violent video games is nil. We do live in America and do not need the government regulating us any heavier than they already do. I firmly believe in keeping violent games away from young children, but it's mostly adults playing. If kids are playing, it's because their parents are buying it for them. That's not our problem and shouldn't be an industry problem. That's a parenting issue.
January 24th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
@DPK: Wow, that's a great idea. I wish we were witty enough to plant our own Jack Thompson, but as Shawn said, he is the real Jack Thompson
January 24th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Also, I'm not sure if you have been to a GameStop, Wal-Mart or Target (the 3 places I tend to buy games) but when they scan M rated games, they are instructed to warn you that the game is rated M, etc. And they will not sell the game to children. I think the rating system we have is fine. If parents are going to buy it for their kids anyway, shouldn't that be an issue with them and not with the rest of the responsible gaming world?
January 24th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Jack Thompson is a fucking dickhead and needs to either learn about what he attacks, or go die in a hole.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Kind of funny Jack says don't waste your time on video games when he clearly wastes his time with obstreperously asinine comments. I also fail to see why you are on this site, when you are a crusader against these video games. Either you seek attention for the hell hole you come secluded to, or just are just undoubtedly stubborn. How about you drop the mouse and make better use of your time. (e-tard, how silly.)
January 24th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
I never understood what's Jack's position is….does he want to prevent children from buying M-rated games, or ban M-rated games altogether?
To be honest, I'm all for keeping kids away from buying M-rated games, but to treat us all like unstable-minded people who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy, I have a BIG problem with that.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
I just wish people would look at World of Warcraft and go "OMG HE STABBED A GUY!" (which by the way, is a far more violent crime than shooting..).
It's the only game, in which I wish there was a real large boycott of, because it has been (by misuse of it's users) a life destroying force for many people.
Perhaps video games, in some instances can cause violence, because if I had access to the WoW servers, I'd destroy them.
January 24th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Kirby, his position is certainly confusing at times. Most of the conservative rights who are strongly against video games and other forms of media tend to use children as the excuse to go against things. It's fairly well known that a majority of gamers are males in their mid to late 20s so I'm not sure how gaming is even an issue about kids. There are always cases of parents who purchase adult themed games and movies for their kids, but that really isn't something we can control. Bad parenting is bad parenting.
There were mass shootings and violence long before games were invented. This is just an old debate that shifts it's focus onto whatever the new hot topic is. It went from comic books to radio to movies to television and now the emphasis is on gaming.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:11 am
So does thompson have a doctorate also ? Because if I need one to know that the games I'm playing are turning me into a savage killer, wouldn't he need one to know that he's not doing a very good job as a lawyer attacking law abiding citizens (gamers)? And who deemed the people at Take-Two as being sociopathic ? Thompson ? A friend of his ? The guy down the street ? You would think a lawyer would be wary of slandering people in a news release. This does nothing to instill a feeling of trust and credibility towards you jack. M games to kids isn't right, but neither is attacking a community for the legal passtime it partakes in.
January 25th, 2008 at 2:34 am
ok let's end this jack Thompson Bull Shit.
he's just trying to make a name for himself by using all this Anti-Video Games crap to get himself on the news, internet and any other form of information viewed by the public.
really the guys just trying to feed the Super massive Black Hole of an ego he has
just take heart in knowing that all the people like jack who didn't grow up with video games and who don't understand them and think there a threat are on there way out. and soon people like us, the gamers will be in the seats of power and all of this "games teach people to kill" nonsense will be gone. i believe that day is close at hand my friends so just wait.
our time will come.
goon165, Gamer for life
January 25th, 2008 at 4:53 am
Dear Goon165:
First of all, nice name. It says it all.
Secondly, nobody, and I mean nobody, takes seriously nor should they take seriously, a bunch of cowards who rant and rave about this or any issue anonymously. The signers of the Declaration of Independence had the courage to put their names on the document. I use my name. You e-tards hide behind avatars because you are cowards, and cowards change nothing but their underwear.
As to my not knowing anything about video games because I have not played them: I have played them. And anyone with a brain and a moral compass is appalled by the sale of GTA to ten-year-olds.
That is my issue, because neurology proves that such young brains are more easily molded into more violence-disposed brains. If you can't understand and won't understand that, then the retardation induced by the games is obviously patent. You're then Exhibit A.
Jack Thompson
January 25th, 2008 at 6:18 am
John B. Thompson, Attorney at Law
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, Florida 33146
January 25, 2008
Bill Gates, Chairman
Microsoft Corporation
Redmond, Oregon Via Fax to (425) 93-MSFAX (936-7329)
Re: Full Corporate Responsibility
Dear Mr. Gates:
I have read with great interest your speech yesterday to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/wef/article3248455.ece .
As a Christian, I applaud your and your wife’s long-standing adherence to the Biblical imperative to provide for the poor.
Allow me to note another Biblical imperative from the mouth of Jesus Christ:
“If any of you should cause one of these little ones to stumble, then it would be better for you that a millstone be tied around your neck and that you be cast into the uttermost depths of the sea.”
Microsoft Corporation participates actively in the practice of marketing and selling “Mature” video games to kids under 17 years of age in the United States. Right this moment, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, GameStop, and even Toys R Us are selling your company’s Mature-rated Microsoft XBox 360 games at their Internet web sites to kids of all ages with no age verification whatsoever. Further, the United States Federal Trade Commission has proven that Mature games, including XBox 360 games, are being sold roughly half the time to kids of all ages in brick-and-mortar retail store chains across the United States.
Microsoft is a member of the Entertainment Software Association, which aggressively lobbies and litigates for your company’s alleged “right” to sell ESRB-rated “Mature” games directly to children with no parents involved in the transactions. This sleight of hand by which your company says it supports age restrictions on the sale of Mature games while at the same time flouting the age ID system, constitutes, in my and others’ legal opinion, a clear violation of state and federal “fraudulent and deceptive trade practice” statutes. I have alerted certain law enforcement officials to this fact.
At www.microsoft.com, you and your company proclaim your Corporate Responsibility:
“As an industry leader and the world's largest software company, Microsoft has a responsibility to act as a good corporate citizen in every country around the world. Whether it is complying with local laws and regulations, demonstrating ethical business standards, mitigating risks to the environment, or protecting human rights, Microsoft is committed to being a global leader in corporate social responsibility. [emphases added]
Using your own above words, Microsoft has an obligation to be a good corporate citizen “in every country,” and that includes in the United States where an ESRB age game rating is supposed to mean something. “Complying with local laws” includes fraudulent and deceptive trade practices statutes that prohibit companies from saying one thing and then doing quite another in the marketing of their products. One of the “risks to the environment” includes the celebration of violence and misogyny in our pop culture environment that glamorizes killing cops, beating women, and killing innocent bystanders just for the fun of it. There can be pollution of kids’ minds as well as pollution of their water and air. “Columbine” is not just a school. Finally, one “human right” is the right of a parent not to have corporations, including yours, marketing and selling adult products to their kids behind their backs.
Why is all this important, as a matter of public health and safety, that Microsoft stop participating in the marketing and sale of adult video games to children? Because hard science—brain scan studies at Harvard, Indiana, and Michigan State Universities—shows that kids process violent games in the parts of the brain that lead to copycatting behaviors. This neurobiological differential between teen and adult brains is what undergirds, scientifically, the video game age-rating system that your own industry and your company routinely violate.
With great respect for all you have done for others but with an eye toward what you can and must yet do, I implore you, as Microsoft’s Chairman, to tell the video game industry that Microsoft will henceforth not tolerate industry practices that result in the sale of “Mature” XBox games to American kids under seventeen years of age. You can impose this stricture with the stroke of a pen. Any company that violates this stricture will be denied your products. This is not censorship. This is voluntary corporate responsibility.
Finally, I would humbly suggest that you cannot credibly fund international charity with corporate profits secured by harming children here at home.
Corporate responsibility, like charity, begins at home.
Regards, Jack Thompson
Copies: Media, others
January 25th, 2008 at 6:55 am
What ever happened to parents being parents, it sounds like you want the government to change our diapers and feed us with a spoon. Hence the stores should follow the law on not selling mature games to minors, but it's parents fault for not confiscating the game from the child if he did somehow bought or received a mature rated game. Also for your unnecessary avatar comment is the fact it's common sense not to use your real name everywhere on the internet, I don't think I have to explain to you why either.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Pft, those no-life nerds, I pity them. Get a life and stop killing yourselves!!!
January 25th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Re parents being parents: Pay attention: The whole issue is whether stores should sell Mature games to kids when their parents are not there! I have a fifteen year old. I would be very upset if Best Buy sold GTA to my son without me there. Deal with it. That is the issue, not your silly fake issue of parental responsibility. We're talking about corporate responsibility.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I applaud Jack Thompson, unlike FOX broadcasting he has hard facts and has an good understanding of what take place in these games. I also agree with the fact that games like manhunt, grand thief auto, counter-strike, and even halo should not be sold to minors at least without their parents presence. Corporations who profit off violent video games like manhunt, grand thief auto, counter-strike, and even halo, should take responsibility and require an ID check on games being sold to minors.
Now before any of you judge my opinion understand I am 21 years old, I have a 7 year old little brother who visits me on a semi-regular basis. I would not under any circumstance allow him to play Manhunt for example while under my watch. Manhunt is about "Snuff" films, films of people dieing for the sexual or otherwise pleasure of sick human beings, that alone is just cause for my little brother not to play that game. I'm sure put into my situation any of you with a moral state of mind would do the same. (Also for the record I do not own manhunt, but found it a good example due to the extremeness of the content counter-strike and halo would also be fine examples for other reasons.) Am I the bad guy for doing this?
Jack Thompson is right in his effort to stop the sales of these games to minors who don't have the parental or otherwise protection from these types of games. Yes I think it should be the parents responsibility but time and time again we are shown that they do not pay attention to the games their children play, I've played with countless underage players on Gears of war alone and Gears of war is a fairly graphic game.
regards,
The Bad guy
January 25th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Mr. Thompson,
I agree with your concerns regarding corporate responsibility but is regulation of commerce the only aspect of this fight you want to engage in? For this argument - against the exposure of young gamers to mature subject and content - to succeed you surely must see that it necessitates a two pronged attack. Have these games made harmful impressions on people who did not have the skills (regardless of physical age) to cope with the content and stimulation? Certainly. Reason says that is likely the case. Do the majority of consumers favor censorship of this content? Likely not as the market's growth and positive sales trends say that the majority of buyers for games are not children, they tend to by young adults (male and female increasingly) who are turning to games of all sorts with the same love that past generations have embraced literature, radio and television as their entertainment form of choice. Are blind attacks against corporations and demands of censorship in keeping with the foundations of American liberty? Will demanding the sales of "objectionable" games not happen because the content could potentially be viewed or played by those inappropriate audiences? I'm not so sure.
Corporate education is a necessary step toward protecting our impressionable youth, and I won't speak to the outlying societal issues related to other media here, but without parents involved and informed and doing their jobs to educate and direct their children this issue can not practically be resolved. Maybe companies have a responsibility to help parents make good decisions in their purchasing from a societal respect and maybe they have not done enough so far but I see that trend changing because of people like yourself who are crusading to make people aware that games are not strictly childs play.
However, you seem to be (and pardon me if I'm mischaracterizing your position here) placing all the imputus on the creators and vendors of these titles. The fact remains the consumers are also an issue and so long as we exist in a free market society where consumers can choose which products to buy, and continue to support products like these with their money then I dare say the market will provide them, possibly rightly so.
I think in your passion for your cause you may have mixed two very different goals together and diluted your results. You seek to protect our youth. I completely support that, but you also seem to attack those who enjoy the entertainment provided by these games, the general consumer, for supporting products containing content you disagree with - and I'm referring to those who should be allowed by the standards of our society to enjoy them.
I see so many parallels here between this and the Comic Book Code Authority movement in the 50's and the anti-rock-n-roll movement as well. This is a new entertainment form within our society and we have to find a level at which we can ensure the basic freedoms of the consumer while defending those society decides are not yet ready to be exposed to it.
I know you are walking into a lion's den every time you post on a forum like this or do an interview with an audience that are staunchly pro-games. I respect that you don't expect to be heard fairly or reasonably by some members of these game communities but I think you'd find that many of us agree with your principal argument (if I got it right), just maybe not your approach or your methods.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:51 am
A recent poll done by the ESA itself, which was inadvertently released to the public, found that 65% of the American people want the federal government to criminalize the sale of mature video games minors.
I have won the fight for the hearts of the American people, and your side has lost.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:30 am
It's extremely rare for a store to sell a MA game to a minor. When it happens, the store should be brought up on charges. The kids who are playing the MA games have someone of legal age purchase them, and that's not really something that can be taken care of easily unless you want police departments to set up sting operations in every little town and honestly the police have bigger things to worry about.
It's kind of like beer and cigarettes. There will always be a few adults who purchase those items for kids, but you can't punish the rest of us for the deeds of a few derelicts.
I agree with Shawn's comment about the fact that it's not right to attack the typical consumer. I'm all for keeping MA products out of the hands of kids, but regulation simply will not solve the problem. The games are already rated.
JT, I have no problem with criminalizing the sale of MA material to minors. I actually support that myself, but I do not support the notion that video games cause violence.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Criminalizing the sale of 'M' rated video games to minors is an unnecessary interference by the government in the free market. As Shawn said, there IS a market for these games, and therefore they will continue to be made. We all know that retailers are doing an increasingly better job of regulating the sale of these games; however, the onus is not on the retailer.
The vast majority of 'M' rated games that end up in the hands of minors are purchased for them by their parents. The same is also true of 'R' rated movies, the big screen counterpart to the Mature rated game. Why is this the case? Simple. Many parents today are not aware of the content of these game,s because they simply don't play games, or don't follow them that closely.
When little Johnny comes home and tells his mom he wants a new game, in many cases she'll go buy it for him. After all, the Playstation (or XBox) is a great babysitter. Then, once Mom sees the content of the game she's bought (think Manhunt) she's outraged, and wants someone to blame. The unfortunate truth is that she can't see that the only blame in this situation rests squarely on her own shoulders.
Luckily, retailers (at least game specific retailers) are learning this, and are encouraging their employees to point out ratings and what they mean to parents purchasing games. That's the beauty of a free market - it regulates itself. Don't we have better things for our tax dollars to be used for than to help prop up the ego of a parent that made a bad decision? I think we do.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Tell your libertarian fantasies to Ron Paul while you're both high on marijuana.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
@Jack: Is that really your rebuttal Mr. Thompson? No wonder Judges don't take you serious. If you want to discuss topics of Mature games, then I would at least expect you to act like an adult who can handle mature topics.
BTW: Marijuana is an illegal substance. So for you to condone the use of an illegal substance really makes me question your credibility sir.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Dear Moron: Of course it's an illegal substance. Adult entertainment material sold to minors is done so illegally as well. That's he point, e-tard, which is why libertarians like you are irrelevant.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Jack, why are you on this site about gaming and bashing Take-Two? I thought the lawsuit brought against you by Take-Two makes you unable to insult or try to discourage people from buying their products? Right there in your post about Take-Two, you call the people who work there sociopaths, what's that for? They have done nothing to be called sociopaths, the people who work there have no choice to work on the game they are assigned to work on. Though the question I would like you to answer is why Grand Theft Auto? Out of all the games that are out right now why this one particular game?
Also you should answer quickly because 6 news posts from now and this topic will not be on the front page, how about you create a forum thread to continue this discussion?
January 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
You are really, really a huge dick. Which leads me to believe you MUST have a very small one. What the hell is your problem? Minors don't get hold of games. They don't. They don't. THEY DON'T. So why are you still hanging around? GTFO.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Besides, you don't care what anyone says, you have your (ridiculous) opinion, your idiotic crusade, and you don't listen to a damn thing anyone else says. WHY ARE YOU HERE? You're going to lose. Gaming is NOT going anywhere.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
obvious troll is obvious.
January 25th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
couldn't have said it better myself rick
January 25th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
RON PAUL /b/!!!!!!
but seriously speaking now….why would anyone of you get offended about any of this if you are over 18? All that Jack is trying to do is prevent minors from buying M-rated games behind mommy and daddy's back. And besides, we all know how annoying teens are in VoIP-enabled multiplayer games
This could be a good thing for the gaming industry.
It's a fact of life now that parents don't want to be parents anymore. When parents don't do shit anymore, government needs to step in and do the "parenting" work instead. It sucks indeed, but without any intervention, who the hell knows what these teeny-boppers will be doing.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Re parents being parents: Pay attention: The whole issue is whether stores should sell Mature games to kids when their parents are not there! I have a fifteen year old. I would be very upset if Best Buy sold GTA to my son without me there. Deal with it. That is the issue, not your silly fake issue of parental responsibility. We're talking about corporate responsibility.
Evidently you did not read the rest of my comment, please read the rest of my comment; and focus more on the issue, not bashing people thanks.
Dear Moron: Of course it's an illegal substance. Adult entertainment material sold to minors is done so illegally as well. That's he point, e-tard, which is why libertarians like you are irrelevant.
Actually you are encouraging to take an illegal substance, I don't think corporations say minors should buy mature rated games; You really place things out of context. If you are in fact a lawyer, this is a sad display of your behavior. Then again I don't even know why I should waste a Milli second replying to you since you are the common internet troll.
January 25th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I'd just like to put it out there, for all that research on video games make people violent-
I've watched and play the original Doom since I WAS SIX YEARS OLD
I've played and seen just about every violent game out there, including Grand Theft Series, Call of Duty, Quake, Half-life, too many to list.
I'm 18 now and I've never been in a fight, never shot anyone, never hurt anyone, I have a completly clean record….
Not exactly sure where all this violence stuff is coming from, but I can say that video games have never influenced me, I don't care what any "expert" says.
To Parents who "want games to be rated"
DO RESEARCH MY PARENTS DID IT. IT IS POSSIBLE. Stop being lazy, you signed up for the job when you conceived, we live in a modern world, STOP BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR MISTAKES.
I couldn't agree more with the author of this article, nice job it was a great read!
January 25th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
As a long time (8 year) guild leader i've dealt with a number of suicidal individuals. Luckily during their time with the guild we never lost any. How they're doing now? I unfortunatly can't tell you. The reality is that there are a lot of unhappy people in the world. The great thing about gaming is that it provides a safe(r) environment for them to reach out, seek help and expand their social network.
I recently did my thesis on video games influence on the "real" world. While I didn't talk about suicide i did get into a lot of the amazing benefits which no one touches on. Instead of going on about it here, i'll just post it as it includes a lot of what i'd regurgitate here.
http://www.alex-berger.net/Not%20Just%20A%20Game%20-%20Thesis.pdf
January 25th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Did he drop any good loot?
January 25th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I played counter-strike since beta 4. If anyone know how long that is, then you can have something to say. I use to play almost 6-10 hours a day, every day if not more when I was growing up. I still play on and off but nowadays i mostly play wow, and spend time with the wife. I have a ton of friends that all played as well.
None of us have ever committed felonies, or misdemeanors or have had to spend any time in jail. A person could just be a messed up person who happened to play games.
I'll admit there is a huge difference in the mentalities of individuals in MMOS, and FPS. More often you will find the caring and helping gamers in an mmo, then in a FPS.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Jack Thompson, Attorney,
I used to play Counter-Strike obsessively in high school, and the only people I've killed are cops! So, it's not a bad thing, silly.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
January 25th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
And If Jack Thompson on here really is Jack Thompson…
I may not agree with everything you say, but I will admit I do give you some credit for showing up on boards like this and defending your stance.
Again, I do not agree with everything you say, but I will agree the ESRB ratings don't really mean much if parents, children, and retailers do not abide by them.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
All right. You game-tards win for once. I'll concede, Warcraft may have helped this kid in a very small way. While I'll agree to disagree on the subjects of violence and sexuality, the social aspects of gaming are one that I think, if expounded upon, are actually quite redeeming. We need more games like Wii bowling, as long as they don't suck your lives away with their addictive 9-pin simulations.
Also, I'm in love with Jerry Holkins and it is rumored I like wang.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Jack, you make it very clear that you have found your life's issue, and nothing anyone shows you that runs contrary to your already established beliefs will alter your opinions. Congrats on finding your calling. Unfortunatly those beliefs cause you to also believe that government involvement and regulation are the only solutions to the problem, which as far as I can tell is not really a problem at all.
Jack: Please provide some sort of link to any documentation that shows we actually have a significant problem that requires the use of courts and incarceration to solve.
Unlike you, I am willing to keep an open mind and allow my opinion to change under new evidence. I am hereby giving you a chance to present such evidence.
Don't just tell my about a study, show me the study. Please demonstrate that A) there is a significant problem with people of any age running amok all hopped up on violent video games, B) that your prosposed solution has any historical or other emperical evidence demonstrating that it will work the way you say it will, and C) how the government or society as a whole has more of a right or duty to determine what children "should or should not see" than their parents.
If you can not demonstrate any or all of these points, I will continue to consider your opinion as little more than the exagerated rantings of a sad little man who must have gotten his ass handed to him in Pong by someone half his age and has held a personal grudge against all games ever since.
Of course you can always continue insulting us instead, as we all know that will invariably win people over to your way of seeing things.
– D. Sanders: Parent, Tax-payer, and Gamer.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Hey Jack(ass) Thompson.
Put a gun in a psycho's hand, give him nothing to live for or make him mad, he will shoot someone, wether he plays video games or not.
By your arguements you might as well include the Army, they do violent stuff, they shoot and kill people, sometimes cops do as well. Are they going to kill a bunch of innocent people on campus? OH wait, thats right, they didn't shoot guns in a video game, thats the requirement here, right?
I think you just have a grudge against video games or something, whats wrong, couldn't beat the Donkey Kong record? Did Weibe get to you?
January 25th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
btw Jack, stop trolling, I didn't know you were as avid digg reader!
January 25th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
The problem, as I see it, is not with online games in and of themselves. The problem is that for SOME people they become a substitute for a real life with real friends. Ultimately one discovers that they are living a lonely illusion and, for the most fragile of us, can lead to unfortunate choices. Just my .02, FWIW. RIP, Daniel Kim.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
since when is World of Warcraft rated M?
January 25th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
This is one of the web's most interesting stories on Fri 25th Jan 2008
These are the web's most talked about URLs on Fri 25th Jan 2008. The current winner is ..
January 25th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Who cares? Seriously, no one cares. At least the guy had the decency to go out without taking other people out with him.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Dear Mr. Thompson,
While reading the responses to this post, I have found that after you introduced yourself and your views, people started to verbally attack you. I apologize in their stead for their rudeness. That being said, the moment you started to call them names brought you down to their level. As man of Christ, one would believe that you would try to be patient for those who attack you, practicing the famous "turning the other cheek". If you choose to claim that your motivations are pure, I wish that you try to peaceful and diplomatic in your aims and cause.
I myself play games, some are violent, some are not. However this does not make me a violent person. This is true for many people. I hope this fact does not cause you to disregard my message. Granted, there are people who have difficulty determining what is real and what is not. These people have a fundamental problem with their perception of the world, and should be helped. Others enjoy all kinds of entertainment in their own homes, and if children are playing games that society deems inappropriate, in a free and democratic society, the parents should be the ones who choose how to react. Both sides of this can argue until the cows come home about how we should treat this new form of media. However, we cannot deny at the end of the day, it is the parents prerogative to raise their own children how they see fit, not the state (to an extent of course). You, Mr. Thompson, enjoyed this right while raising your own children, so I hope that you do not wish to revoke that right from other parents.
It is my personal goal to become a lawyer, and eventually a politician to serve this country that I love. Your eye-for-an-eye reactions to others' criticisms and name-calling is a disservice to your cause and your profession.
May the love of humanity guide you.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Jack,
I'm concerned about your approach - there is no reason to call people e-tards. Especially if you want to pretend to be a influential political figure that brings about change. After reading your little bio on Wikipedia (which made me dislike you even more) things started to make a little more sense. It is people like you that polarize America and limit our freedoms, all for personal ambition and some self-righteous drive. Why you think you are morally superior to other people (like Howard Stern or e-tards) is another issue however. I just don't understand why people like you need to draw on statistical evidence (which in my professional career I've learned I can make statistics say anything I want them to say - ask the tobacco industry) to push a moral agenda that limits the freedoms of others. If you don't like video games, don't buy them for your children (for some reason I bet you have some pretty screwed up kids, if you have kids). If you don't like rap videos or rap music, don't let your children watch them or listen to them. If you have no control over your children, maybe you should rethink your parental approach.
The point is, in order to protect and maintain personal freedoms that we Americans love (and rapidly losing), we need to accept there is a certain level of self-accountability both on the parents and the individual in question. It is not up to Big Brother, lobbyists, or Jack Thompson - Attorney (you spelled your name wrong in your last posting) to make sure no one's feelings get hurt or to protect us from ourselves. There are too many of us in the world anyway.
In closing, Jack, why don't you relax in Florida, sit on the beach, and complain about the teenagers that drive too fast and disturb the public with their loud rap music. Children had respect for their elders when you were growing up, right?
But those were the good ol' days when they spent their time outside playing cowboys and indians, which had no racial, social, or violent undertones.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
"I’ve never met any of them in real life, but I consider them true friends". That's the most pathetic thing I've ever read.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Go Retribution!!!
January 25th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
[…] World of Warcraft Online Communities By Nick There was a recent suicide from a Virginia Tech Student. For some reason, World of Warcraft was being blamed on the suicide. You can find some details here. […]
January 25th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Come on guys read his last post, its a troll…
"Also, I'm in love with Jerry Holkins and it is rumored I like wang."
Yeah… right…
January 25th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
did he drop good loots?
January 25th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I agree it's right to limit certain titles, depending on subject matter, to certain age groups. However, we do have to give our children some credit. If you have done your job correctly as a parent, and you child has no previous underlying problems with extreme depression or school issues (and is mentally stable), then your child does have the brains enough to take (some things) as fictional opposed to reality.
Again, that depends on the child, and in the end it is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their children are doing. Secondly, If you own something (a mature game) you do not want anyone to find (especially a young child) it is not impossible to keep said child from reaching those items. It just takes a little more effort on the parent's part. It seems like today's parents are expecting the world to be as wholesome as it was in the 60's. It's not, and as things change in our world, it will only get more difficult to monitor and do what's best for our children.
In the end, we can't always assume that because a person plays a certain game, they're killers. Part of the human consciousness is distinguishing reality from fantasy, and if your children do not have such an ability, then perhaps it is the fault of the parent. Children should be taught at a young age that "this is fake"
The alternative is to take away the video games entirely, which would cause a public uproar, and cause much more violence. It seems that this whole battle is a double-edged sword. The media is complaining about something they cannot change.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
[…] Last month, a Virginia Tech student was found dead in the Target parking lot of the Christiansburg, Virginia store with a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. His name was Daniel Kim, a 21-year old senior at the university. …View Full Story […]
January 25th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
"Facts are overrated BS, Junior. Hooah!" - Jack Thompson
“Belgium is not in the Netherlands!” - Jack Thompson
That's an e-tard
January 25th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I bet he bought the weapon and did it right there. Poor guy. Video games add happiness to people's lives but sometimes it seems to get in the way of solving problems. It's an escape, like alcohol or anything else. There is nothing wrong with it but doing it all the time is bad. The problem is WoW promotes too much play. You have to play all the time to keep up.
http://www.spymac.com/details/?2331523
January 25th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
whoever things violent games promotes real life violence is a MORON. Yes I said MORON. I play violent games all the time, Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Call of Duty 4, and many others. Do I feel the need to go out and shoot people? NO. I'm probably one of the most laid back, mellow person you'll ever meet. There is a reason for this. I DON'T HAVE A MENTAL DISABILITY. I'm not saying the people that go off and shoot up a school are retarded, but there is something not working correctly in their brain. If they didn't have video games, I'm 100% positive that something else would send them off the deep end. I know if I had a disposition to be violent that the long lines in a bank, or someone cutting me off on the highway would make me snap.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Jack Thompson is my hero! like www.WOWOMG.com !!!
January 25th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Dear Jack Thompson,
I would say about 90% of my friends and family, between the ages of 16 and 28, across the nation (yes.. ones I have met IRL ("in real life", if you don't know)) play video games; whether it be online, on the "seXbox", Playstation, DS, or Wii. Thank God you said something about video games linking to violence! I'll have to make sure none of my friends accidentally take me for a Chimera, a member of the Covenant, Heartless, or an infamous Mushroom Head from Mushroom Kingdom!
Please. Are you going to say that violent films contribute to violent behavior as well? Because that's basically what a video game is - an interactive movie. Individuals choose the games they want to play and the movies they want to see. If you want to talk about something children shouldn't see, go watch a snuff film.
What we expose ourselves to is our own choice. Moreover, it is our own personal choice what we do with our lives. If somebody is going to commit suicide or kill dozens of people, you can't blame a piece of plastic and a screen for that. I'd love to hear a sociologist's point of view on the matter. I'm sure somewhere between the family and social factors they could completely obliterate your stand-point. Learn to be more objective with things.
Also, get your head out of your ass.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
At the end of the day I will never take notice of idiots like Jack who believe video games cause people to become violent.
It's easy to create a scapegoat. It's harder to find the real truth behind tragedies such as this.
January 25th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
This Jack dude can't be serious can he? Surely he is just pulling our leg? Please someone tell me he doesn't truly believe this drivel!
January 25th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
I don't even post here but WOW is that Thompson guy ever a bore.
No surprise he's a lawyer, definitely picked the right profession.
And I co-sign the small wang.
January 25th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
@loot
No! 4 strength 4 stam leather belt!
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0eCoEI5pN8E
January 25th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
could it be just due to the social environment at Virginia Tech?
doesnt it seem like too much of a coincidence that two people from the same school are involved in shootings and/or suicides?
January 25th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Yeah, uh…Mr. "Thompson"…its really going to score you a lot of points with people you are debating when you are using epithets to describe the people are you arguing with. Using words like "e-tards" and "gamer-tards" is really mature and goes a long way to show your credibility.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
I can't believe you guys think that's Jack Thompson. It's clearly a troll, and you all are buying into it.
Excellent trolling, though. The finest of quality.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I sure as hell don't think its Jack Thompson, but yeah like you said, good job at trolling you get +10 AP.
January 25th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
And if he is or not….I said the flames would come……
January 25th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
I feel this was a genuinely good article that I can get behind. It is good to see that someone who plays games write an article like this. I feel the same way as when there is no one else around I can always find comfort in knowing a ton of people are playing Call of Duty 4 at any time. I know, I for one, have a good heart, I feel. I agree that gamers do have good hearts when you break down that exterior most have that they are better than you. Usually when they get out of that teen angst stage they are more willing to be decent people sooner than later. It is a shame that Kim took his own life. But I've been down that path, I know what it is like when you have no one around to talk to and you feel things are hopeless. I still have battles with it. Sometimes friendship comes in strange forms and if WoW was his social life, then that is good. It's just a shame no one saw the signs early enough to prevent the tragedy.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Wow, and I don't mean in terms of World of Warcraft. I'm astounded at how you guys all think that's really Jack Thompson. Did anyone notice his last little bit about how he liked wang? Sheesh. Besides, we all know that Jack Thompson has never accomplished anything, which means he has no right to speak to the public about what should be done (besides the fact that he's supposedly talking to us on an internet comment board!). That really is some quality trolling though, it might be the first time I've ever had some respect for a troll.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
College students commit suicide at a much higher rate than most people know. It's silly to pin it to one cause. It's also HIGHLY disrespectful to the victim and his/her family.
It's somewhat sensational and sadly opportunistic to make the connection between violence in gaming and tragic cases of young people committing suicide. What did you expect though? The world is lacking true journalists that report facts and leave interpretation to the reader.
Sad.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Wow,
It actually is Jack Thompson. When comments come in, we see the IP. He's actually a regular visitor on our site from time to time.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:11 am
A well informed parent would know that all of the latest game consoles can be set to NOT PLAY M RATED GAMES. It doesn't take being with your child every second of the day to do your own research about parenting, and stop them before they start playing.
BTW, I LOVE the term "e-tard". Almost made me shit my pants.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Well here is my honest to goodness really name Mr.Thompson and though i agree that GTA being sold to a ten year old is bad and should not happen kids can absorb violence from a number of different outlets in the media, Your average PG-13 action movie has some violent death scenes and showcase how cool guns are, why not attack them. Same goes for TV they have shows readily avalable for anyone to watch that also show people using guns in cool action sequences.
Also It is partly the buisness's responsibility to not sell MA games to minors but the other part is clearly the parent. Anyone who truly cares what their kids are playing will be able to find out by just looking at thier xbox 360 achievements or look more closely at the game they are playing on the TV set. Also what the hell happened to some people just being crazy? Why cant these psycho's who shoot up schools just maybe not be right in the head? If something like a videogame is able to tip you to the point where you are capable of killing your own classmates there is something mentally wrong with you already and it could have just as easily been a violent movie or tv show. Also Mr.Thompson acting like your 10 with your comments does not help your cause at all because you are condemming the comments they make to you yet find it ok to respond in the same way. I think the underlying issue here is that these kids in most cases have shown warning signs or people they knew reported these signs and they were largely ignored, maybe if they take those more seriously this would not being happening as often as it does.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Where to start…
This thread is hilarious. I can't remember how I got here, after working tonight painting my kitchen. I'm now enjoying a late nite beverage and a little well earned relaxation and random surfing.
I'm 37. I love GTA. Its also disturbingly violent. Whatever. In my opinion, there's certainly a place for a voice of caution in the distribution of psychopathic simulation software, especially given that it gets better and better.
On the other hand, maybe a man who presents himself as an obsessive pompous asshole isn't the best man to lead that cause. Again, whatever.
But really the reason I chose to actually join this throng is the senseless suggestion that Virginia Tech should be considered as the root cause of two shootings. That is, TWO shootings. While we're jumping to idiotic reckless conclusions, let's also jump on the fact that both incidents involved Asians, they were both male, and neither one has ever been in my kitchen — all equally baseless and moronic suggestions. Two incidents is not a trend, and is certainly not a reasonable basis to pile on a community that endured an extraordinarily horrific tragedy less than a year ago.
Have you ever been to Virginia Tech? I can't imagine a college setting that could be LESS an incubator of gun violence or suicidal/homicidal tendencies. Although I'm certainly willing to listen, if you can produce more compelling evidence than a two point data set.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:44 am
My gaming history.
Age 3. Played Super Mario Bros. couldn't get passed the 3rd lvl.
Age 4. My uncled tore my heart our in Mortal Kombat. My respone "How'd you do that?!"
Age 5 - 13. Played the most violent video games out there, from all the Mortal Kombats, Twisted Metals, and War Crafts.
Age 14 - 17 Became boarderline obsesed with Halo, Rainbow 6, and starcraft. (Read all the halo novels btw, great works
)
Age 18 - Now. World of Warcraft begins, along with the new Halo 3, Mass Effect, and Assasin's Creed.
The person writing this is creative, sneaky, cunning, nice, wise, lazy, athletic, and a tree hugger. He's also quite the liar as well.
You see, gamers aren't different. We're saints and jerks, just like everyone else. Just because someone commited an act of violence, does not mean video games were involved with pushing said person to that point. You see people getting shot in Philadelpha and New Jersey every damned night, and you think video games are the problem? You sir, need to wise up, and look at the big pictue.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:56 am
Jack,
Firstly, drop the e-tard, game-tard thing. It is the behaviour of an immature child and is not proving a point to anyone. Also, I remind you of the medium in which you are currently using to communicate. E-tard seems slightly inappropriate.
Second of all, it appears to me that your issue is with the sale of games to underage people. I think we would all agree with this. The game is not the issue, it's the retailers. Take them on and more power to you - in fact I would happily join you in this crusade.
Number three, games are not just for children. In fact, a recent study in Australia showed that the average age of a gamer in Australia is 28. I can provide you with a link if you are interested. This is important. I'm an adult and a gamer. My partner is a adult and a gamer. We both work full-time, have a house, have an active social life and my partner is a volunteer at Royal Flying Docters every second Sunday.
Finally, if you are interested in a productive, open dialoge with gamers, you will recieve one. If you want to make changes, you need to convince the gamers. They have an amazing power over games companies. However, first you must treat us with respect, listen to conflicting points of view and make judgements on fact and inbput from numerous sources, not just on emotion.
If you are interested in any of the above, I would be astonded and respectful. If not, you can continue your pointless and unsuccessful ranting at your leasure. You may not, however, say that the gaming community has not reached out to you.
Brad
January 26th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Oh, and World of Warcraft now has 10 million players. Are you expecting 10 million suicides or murders in the next few months?
January 26th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Dave,
I truly believe that the shooting that took place in April could have happened anywhere. For some reason, Blacksburg was the last place on earth I would expect these things to happen. I grew up in Blacksburg and left when I was 17 to serve two enlistments in the U.S. Army. I had just gotten back from Iraq and was trying to decide where I wanted to go. I was in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq during my time in, so violence was something I wanted to get far away from for a while. I chose Blacksburg because it was familiar and safe. I was a little upset when news reports were claiming that one of the problems was that Cho wasn't accepted by the VT community which was a total crock. If you can't get along with groups of people in bburg, you aren't going to get along with people anywhere on earth.
I suppose what happened that eerie April morning will never seem right to me. It was so out of place for Virginia Tech. I never expected to hear hundreds of gun shots and later see the bodies and find out one of my friends was dead.. it just didn't fit with the area. So if you go the drift from my article that I was blaming VT, I'm definitely not. At the time of the shooting, I was going to school and also worked for the Virginia Tech police department. I certainly only blame Cho and no one else.
I have since left the area, but I still love VT and always will. Even though I don't live there anymore, I will be going back for nearly every home football game. There's really nothing in the world like a Hokie football game. I don't think people who are on the outside understand the sense of community that has been established on that campus. There's no place on earth like it. It's a peaceful place. When it comes to crime in Blacksburg, nearly all crimes are committed by people who travel through town.
So I'm certainly not saying any of this is because of VT. It was just our bad luck that Cho chose to attend school in Blacksburg. It really could have happened in any town or city in America and I think that's what makes it a little scary. After leaving the Army, I thought I was desensitized to violence, but April definitely showed me that I wasn't.
I think that VT still needs to make some drastic policy changes, but there are thousands of colleges around the world that need to do the same thing. Who knows where the next Cho is? The only question is when.
So in the end, I do not believe that VT or Blacksburg had anything to do with the cause of these events. It was just random. Cho was a wack job who would have done something like this anywhere he went in life. Some people feel sorry for him and thought that maybe he could have been helped. I guess I'm not at that stage yet and probably never will be. I hate to say it, but some people are simply beyond help and some people are so crazy that they can fly completely under whatever radar we put in place to find these nuts.
January 26th, 2008 at 1:30 am
These kinds of things lay in the hands of parents. If you allow your child's mind to become so warped they begin to believe and/or act out what they see in video games you have failed as a parent.
I've been playing video games my whole life, I especially love the GTA series. It's mindless entertaining as hell fun! Parents should know their kids better than anyone, if you know your kid can't differentiate between Real Life and a Video Game don't let them play violent video games.
If Mom and Dad would put down their cell phones for a minute or whatever else they're busy with and act like they gave a rat's ass it wouldn't be an issue, there's ESRB ratings on everything for EVERYONE to see!
Just the opinion of a 19 y/o
January 26th, 2008 at 1:50 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)
"69%"
"The Florida Bar Association is currently seeking sanctions against Thompson for inappropriate conduct."
January 26th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Man I just played some WoW. I think I'm going to shoot some people, rape some nuns, and then kill myself. I'LL SHOW YOU PVP.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Does this mean we need to reroll on your server and crash ANOTHER funeral?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Did he drop any good loot?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Just want to point out that there has been studies about the link between Video Games and Violence, all of which have come up inconclusive, because the same types of aggressive behavior also come from any type of competition, other violent media (including books), or high stress levels.
Multiple published scholarly journals report the same findings.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:23 am
jack thompson I played cs1.6 and cs:s for 7 years now and work eat n sleep have a nice life and 1000000000% think that your a stupid mother fucking old faggot lawyer left wing liberal and think u should uninstall yourself from society GAME DoNot cause violence jealous obessions do like my 22 year old brother has video games dont effect him in a violent way he's already like that he will shoot you he plays cs:S and is calm but will go crazy on the outside world and beat u up and wear his hat sideway the type will kill you its not the video game its the intelligence of the common person from person 2 person I.Q. and common sense is lacking and mental illinesses are the cause not video games u can have GTA PIMP's N HOE's and then after blow there fkn head off and it wont effect ANYONE cept people with mental illinesses like you jack have a nice day. p.s. dont reply on this forum make urself like like an ass
January 26th, 2008 at 4:36 am
If lawyers did not exist, we wouldn't need them.
Suckers by nature, crybabies.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:57 am
Either JT himself is pouring over messageboards and forums, scouring the internet for any place he can find to shoehorn his misguided crusade into; or there is a very bored individual out there who likes to stir up controversy. Let's examine this, shall we? Based on very little research, Mr Thompson seems like a very bitter unhappy man, and I wouldn't be the least surprised if he did in fact spend most of his free time Googling his own name. On the other hand, trolling has achieved a level of artistry previously undreamed of, so the likelihood of a professional troll hitting this article up for a cheap laugh is quite good. Personally, I kind of hope that it's really Jack, as this adds an air of celebrity to these humble proceedings.
January 26th, 2008 at 5:01 am
[…] Virginia Tech, Suicide And World Of Warcraft - "The only warning signs that he was on the edge came in the form of emails sent to the university from various WoW players who were concerned for his safety. Unfortunately, little action was taken from the warnings and as we all know, Daniel Kim is now de […]
January 26th, 2008 at 5:12 am
I do believe the corporations are to blame for any sale being made to a minor, I do not believe they are 'trained' as Mr. Thompson put it, to target minors in stores.
I understand how unstable it is for the ESRB system and corporations to have no security or any way of stopping minors to purchase these M rated games online, and while a ban on it is the simplest solution, I do not believe even Mr. Thompson thinks he is able to convince or force these companies of getting rid of the thousands of purchases even if they are minors buying.
I would like to know, Mr. Thompson, exactly how it is you expect to make these companies say good bye to their money, and start caring who's buying it; that is if you even have a solution.
While you have stated the results of certain APA studies or ESA polls, perhaps something as simple as a link for myself and others to read (for those who haven't studied as much as yourself), so I can see for myself "all the facts".
Also, have there been studies, connecting with these damages to the brain, with other sorts of mediums? Have there been studies to see if a young mind watching violent movies perhaps, have the same or similar 'violent' tendencies? Or have these exact damages come from completely different situations?
If not, why is it that videogames is the only current target? Because there have been related deaths to those that play them? What about the men and women here, including myself, that have been exposed to the violent games since young age, that seemingly have had not been effected? Are we 'immune' to this?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but as your lack of maturity has shown with the latter posts, I just doubt any of them will be answered.
Thanks anyways.
January 26th, 2008 at 5:19 am
I always find something interesting to read when its four in the morning and I am getting in from whatever social setting I was at. I love all of you for giving me smiles and brightening my day. I understand to some of you that this is very serious…as it is to me as well. But nothing that I say on here will be taken serious by Jack (or any other person who blames games for violence). So I don't say this to chance anyone's mind. I do think though that violent games have a tendency/chance to inspire the violence in som