Sessler’s Soapbox is Tired of the Bigots on Xbox Live
By Jonathan on Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 at 9:26 PM PST In Game Companies, Game Consoles, Gamer Life, Microsoft, Microsoft, Videos
For this week’s Sessler’s Soapbox, Adam Sessler brings up an issue that’s old, but still unfortunately valid. That is, he, like many people, is fed up with the amount of racist and homophobic talk on Xbox Live. As he points out, the situation is just getting uglier all the time. Personally, I just mute the headset from the start as a default. Occasionally I’ll crank up the volume to see if there’s any sort of reasonable talk going on, and I’m usually disappointed…in humanity. Sessler also calls on anyone out there to explain why this sort of talk is necessary. You can check out how that’s going at the video’s website here.
I can’t remember where exactly I saw this, but an article I once read brought up a good theory on why this sort of behavior is more prevalent on Xbox Live over other online gaming forums. Part of the reason stems just from the fact that the Xbox 360 comes with a headset right out of the box, rather than having one sold separately. The thing is, the person who goes out of their way to purchase an extra headset is more likely use it to simply socialize and coordinate in the game. When it’s already there, some people tend to just put it on and start talking. It really is getting worse and worse, though.
The main reason is the simple fact that the vast majority of people on there are young American males.
Norbit stupid don’t know a country
but i do agree i hate the talk during live games that why i think pc games are a lot better you can ban the idiots rather then mute them plus it more satifing
Huh, well. I blame the parents. 1: Not paying attention to their kids. 2: Letting them use the headset mic. 3: For buying their young children, X-Box 360s and crap. I also blame the kids. 1: They think they sound cool, they don’t. 2: They should really behave themselves, anywhere. Becuase, alot of people. Hate hearing little wankers, cursing, and crap like that. 3: You should really be quiet. Now, I’m fifteen, but I know when to talk, when to be quiet. And all that. I swear rarely when playing on any online game. Why? Becuase, I find swearing only to be used in situations when they call for it. Like, you get shot. Go ahead, if you own some “n00b” online. I’m sick, and so are alot of people over this matter. Kids should just STFU OR GTFO.
To clarify, that “To get shot” one, was a real-life situation.
It’s an unfortunate truth that when people can hide behind the anonymity of an online handle, they tend to behave in ways they wouldn’t in person. Furthermore, parents simply aren’t parenting anymore. If my son was sitting his room yelling profanities into his headset, then he would quickly lose that headset, along with the 360 it was attached to.
Simply put, this is an issue that crops up when you combine younger people who think profanity is ‘cool’ with an environment that rarely if ever punishes them for it. Maybe if more people took the time to report these morons, then Microsoft would take some sort of action against them.
True dat. I used to play CSS (Counter-Strike: Source), on almost every server. There is always that little kid, like. 11 years old. Swearing, getting angry, and most of the older people on that server, hate them. God, It’s the same with when a girl gets on, they hear them talk. then it’s a flood of “OMG A GRL” “NO its prlly a guy” “R u hott” “Cn I c u nakd?” Sadly, I’ve heard alot of those. The parents should really monitor and punish their kids. And the kids should learn to control it.
It’s pretty naive to think this problem exists on one platform, much less to a particular demographic. This sort of thing has been going on since the days of Quake deathmatch. Microsoft does take action, but you have to have strong evidence to support such (hint: rare). Bungie has been pretty good about moderating this type of stuff, but even their resources are strained.
Historically, the most successful way to combat this kind of stuff, albeit crude, is for the game developer to incorporate some type of admin stuff specifically for the title. But even that has its drawbacks – especially if said game has limited popularity.
But I wholeheartedly agree, the blame is solely on the parents. It’s a losing battle on the other end, regardless of devices used.
Certain gaming avenues attract different age groups or cultures. This doesnt necessarily mean that the game itself is what attracts a playerbase. It is often the existing playerbase that determines who sticks around and who turns away in disgust.
What you’re saying, Sessler, is merely an overly wordy and dramatized version of not enjoying the company of young kids. What did you expect? 10 year old kids are not going to have the capacity to formulate complex and unique trash-talk or retorts. You’re playing a game with 10 year old kids. And yes, they have the freedom of speech, just as you have the freedom to not listen to it. If you want to participate in a more mature gaming community, you’re going to have to find it somewhere else. Because xbox live is already populated by young kids and those who can tolerate young kids. And no, you arent so important that they should all clear out so you can have your fun in peace.
Honestly I would rather see kids grow up spewing profanity or other stupid cliche phrases than see them grow up silent and socially retarded. They’ll grow out of it. I guarantee it. One day they will look back and laugh at how silly they were acting – one day they may be able to engage in intelligent banter with someone your age, Sessler. But right now they are just being kids. Whether it is “butt head” or n****r-f****t…kids will be kids, and they will say some silly things. Why be offended by it? They are just words. And coming from somebody who, as you clearly were able to pick out, does not know entirely what they are saying. I’m ashamed that you were offended, really.
It seems to me like you’re the one who doesnt have tolerance or understanding, Sessler.
In any case. You just have a bad case of not enjoying the company of adolescents. They will grow out of it.
And placed at the end so you dont discredit me at the beginning: I’m 18 and have grown up around the online gaming community for 9 years of my life. I grew out of it. I’ve seen others grow out of it. I know how it works. From me to you: There is no problem here, its all in your head.
Honestly, I would have been more entertained hearing some of your “clever profanity”. :/
if some one says the “n word” on a game and everyone freaks out about it, that just gives them more reason to do it…you people are the ones who give these “biggots” power by reacting so excessively to these words….most of the time there not even “biggots” they are just kids trying to get a rise out of people.
WHO CARES. nuff said!
Cause its funny to hear people whine and go after you in game then get owned
.
These are the same people who spend most of their time on WoW at level 70 ganking 1-20’s and then calling people who don’t play PvP wimps. It has become the “cool” and expected thing to be a complete asshole.
@Spartacus: No, Griefers and spoilers in MMOs are going to a different level of Hell then the Xbox Live Idiots.. I think this all goes back to a certain level of anonymity among these forums. There is no personal consequences so many immature people (regardless of age) feel they can abandon whatever social pressure keeps them from doing that same thing in personal conversation (though in some cases I imagine its not that different to speak with them in person.. but I’m an old cynic).
I don’t think its intolerance for youth alone, and I also think its unfair to classify the core abusers as “10-year old kids” when in fact I think I’ve had just as many bad experiences with older teens and adults who can;t seem to be courteous or respectful. Think about it this way, when we’re kids playing sandlot baseball or soccer we always end a game with a “good game” because the coaches reinforced that behavior.
In the “virtual gamespace” there is merely competition without that mutual respect being reinforced and as far as I know there is no good mechanic to do that so we rely on people to act accordingly and continually get disappointed. So we have a few choices.. we turn off the voice chat.. or we only play with those we know. Both work for me.
This racist crap is why gaming online on the Wii is so enjoyable for me….I don’t have to worry about being the asshole that won’t talk to anybody because Nintendo already made that choice for me…..no voice chat….thank you Nintendo.
Go Marlins!!!!
He’s absolutely right about the image issue. You think it’s bad when the news reports about Mass Effect’s sex scandal? Wait until they start taping some on-line game chatter.
As for “kids will be kids…”, what a load of bull that is. That argument applies when a kid breaks someone’s window playing baseball in the street. I hate to sound like an old fogey, but how about teaching the kids to be respectful of their elders and giving them a good spanking when they don’t. Coddling these little brats is what is creating the situation in the first place.
They also like to say stuff about peoples moms. I just fake a cry say shes dead and say I’m going to kill myself and that I’m going to press charges. They (being 9-12) will freak out and be all apologetic. Hopefully then they won’t be such idiots on Xbox Live anymore.
I am proud to say that I am not one of those people who talk trash just to talk trash. The only times I use my gift of spewing venom is when I’m provoked to do so by inane chatter and dumb 10 year olds. I rarely use any form of vulgarity in my trash talking online. Instead, I adopt to use whit and a demoralizing tone when I talk to people who are just talking complete nonsense.
I personally would love for Xbox Live as a whole to mature. But I am realistic and know that will never happen. When I get on an Xbox Live game, I know it’s a crap shoot on how the room will behave. I’m always forced to play with a headset because I don’t want that vulgarity spewing out of my home theater speakers for anyone passing by to hear.
Xaroth, you couldn’t be more wrong in your response to Sessler’s rant. While you may have the freedom to say what you want, you do not have the freedom to attack and belittle other people over a game. I hear the word “fag” used so often in Halo 3 nowadays its absolutely disgusting. While I may not be gay, I do understand that this is an incredibly derogatory insult for the gay community, and to use it in such a nonchalant way is inexcusable. These kids will get used to verbally abusing people who lose to them on Xbox Live and will then go on and use it in their daily lives. People don’t understand the effects words can have on other people, and when these insults become commonplace it completely degrades society as a whole.
“Whether it is “butt head” or n****r-f****t…kids will be kids”
Are you fucking crazy? “Butt head” is okay, but nigger and faggot are words that are used to marginalize groups of people and should NEVER be used as insults. These are not words that parents should EVER allow their kids to use in any circumstance. If I ever heard my kid say nigger or faggot on Xbox Live their Xbox would be taken from them immedietely and indefinitely.
In the end, this is going to keep occuring predominantly on Xbox Live because of Xbox’s affection to hardcore, competitive games. This kind of language is so common on the Xbox because of this fact, and while it does show up on both the PC and the PS3..these gaming platforms do not cater to the competitive gamers as much as Microsoft does. While I don’t believe that it is Microsoft’s fault that the kids are being so ignorant in their insults, I do believe that Microsoft has to increase the punishment (AKA IP bans) for these type of offenses. I also believe that much of the responsibility lies in the hands of the kids’ parents…AKA don’t like your child play a M rated game if he/she isn’t 17+.
Did anyone else notice the dude holding the controller on the couch is holding a Playstation controller? Might have been nice if the folks who put the video together looked into that image a little. Heh.
Little kids tend to ruin xbox live. I play tf2 all the time and all I hear is I CAN HAZ CHEESEBURGER or people using the n word or calling people faggots. This usually leaves me to play with no headset or to just play on a team with friends only. I just wish there was just a button you can use to shock those kids in real life. Oh and british kids, please stop rapping over live… actually that goes to everyone.
@Xaroth (and anyone else who thinks that he may have a valid point): Why is it that every time someone calls these people out on their inappropriate behavior, someone starts spewing forth a bunch of freedom of speech garbage?
There is NO freedom of speech on the internet. None. Zero. Zilch. Sure, you can say whatever you want on XBox Live, but Microsoft can ban you for it. You can say whatever you want in online forums, but the moderators can edit your posts, delete your posts, or ban your account. Freedom of speech simply doesn’t exist on the internet because you are always posting on someone’s site, and since it’s their sandbox, you have to play by their rules.
Even if you have your own site, if you are being offensive enough, your web host can shut you down. Freedom of speech is a glorious thing we have in America. Unfortunately it has no meaning on the internet or any online community.
If you can’t see the problem, then I am sorry for you. This type of behavior only hurts the gaming community as a whole, as it perpetuates the belief that gamers are socially maladjusted, basement dwelling, mouth breathing morons whose only point in existing is to get one more frag. Honestly, most of us are beyond that. Perhaps if you examine your point of view and modify it, you can join us.
I can see I am in the midst of a “kids are worse these days than when we were kids” bitch-fest. Dont break a hip, you self-righteous, ignorant fogeys.
Perhaps the “ban on profanity” is not being enforced because it would cause a tremendous loss of Microsoft’s Xbox-live profits.
While your idealist “stop them damn kids from swearing! buncha no-good potty-mouths…” viewpoint may look good on paper… I honestly find it a waste of energy to pursue. And I’m sure Microsoft would find it not only a waste, but quite destructive to their online gaming enterprise.
The internet is not driven by morals. “Profane behavior” is only strictly moderated in certain communities, with full knowledge that by exercising such censorship they are drastically changing the audience or member base they are going to attract.
And dont try to lump me in with “profanity-spouting 10 year olds”, through implications however subtle. I am not standing on the other side of the battlefield to defend them, nor because I am one of them; I am over here because one thing I despise is people parading about on their self-righteous high horses – and because I like a good dispute.
In any case, you probably wont be getting any more respectful or effort-filled replies from me. I have other things to attend to. And in before anybody can fabricate any ridiculously unbased ideas as to what things I may indeed be attending to.
Racist language removed. See how that works? -Editor
We do it for the lulz, Adam. For the lulz.
You know what the real problem is? Softies who are still offended by this kind of thing in this day and age. Stop your crying, you sensitive bitches.
Xaroth, you need to understand that there is a large difference between profanity and racial slurs. I don’t have a problem with someone saying “fuck off” or something on Xbox Live, but when people throw out “nigger” and “fag” and make it seem cooler for even younger kids to say, then you have a BIG problem.
The only problem (if it is even a problem) is being offended by such language, in my opinion. People who make such a big deal about it, those who are greatly offended (especially if they are not even of the race or sexual orientation in question), are those who make the language taboo. And if the language is taboo – it will be used by kids who are seeking attention, who want to shock people, or who are just looking to attach more meaning to what they say, whether they fully understand the meaning they are attaching or not.
Imagine being a little kid (10, 11, 12 years old?) – it shouldnt be too hard…
Almost anything you say to an adult (your parent, whoever) or even someone significantly older than yourself (5 years or more?), they have already heard before. You’re incapable of bringing anything new that they havent already heard of, thought of, basically chewed up and spit out. You want to get a rise out of people, be interesting, be heard, have people pay attention to you (good or bad, although children often cannot distinguish between the two, and will bask in similar glory whether they are being frowned or smiled upon). Hey…you know some pretty strong words. Words that really got a rise out of people when you last heard them. You try them on for size. Success! Jaws drop. Whatever. You just got that attention you’ve been craving. Use the word again! And again!
Oh…and then they grow up and are actually capable of grabbing attention without spewing profanity or racism at every chance they get, and they realize that how they acted as children was pretty silly and immature.
But I digress. Children only use such words BECAUSE they are taboo. And you make them taboo by being (in my opinion, needlessly) offended by them. >.>
I hope the “BIG problem” everybody is so afraid of is not that todays youth are going to grow up to be extremely profane and racist individuals. Because they arent. If anything, racism and profanity as it is today, will die in a few generations as all you “fire stokers” who take such great offense to the language pass away (excuse me). Or maybe that is too much to hope for, because you all seem so persistent and intent on passing on the idea that “holy crap these words are BAD! BAD! BAD!!”.
Disclaimer: I’m tired and did not proofread.
Some of us like to get together and make fun of and grief online gamers. The best way to get things rolling, to find out who the easiest targets are, is to offend them and see the type of reaction they have. How serious they take their online gaming or how easily offended someone is makes for a lot of fun if you have a group together in on it with you. It is a game within a game that is a lot more unpredictable because you can take it wherever you want to take it. We do this because it is an easy and somewhat entertaining waste of time. It comes at the expense of others, but oh well, we are enjoying ourselves.
You need to force the wmode for embedded Flash movies so your drop-down menus don’t got behind the SWF, and your “Top Posts” / “Recent Posts” backgrounds should be GIFs with transparency near the rounded corners so that there isn’t a hard, white edge when these items appear on a non-white background.
Fabulouth
It’s a good soap box, but most of the newbs who do it don’t listen. And there are a lot of black guys out there that would need to participate too. But they aren’t going to, it’s too prevalent in society. What are you going to do, get the kids to stop listening to rap, which has the N word and homosexual blasts, to stop listening to their music? It’s just not gonna happen. I’ve just accepted the fact that while I’m online I’m going to be a N word to someone, and just gotten desensitized I guess. COD4 brought it back for me (Halo sux, it’s not real enough). I miss the good old quake 2 ctf days on a 56k modem where you fought to maintain a 150ms ping, and everyone used chat. I agree though, I don’t call anyone a N* and I don’t wanna be called a N*, but society reaps what it sows.
It’s funny that you’re complaining about a 10 year old, when that’s what you now appear to be. I haven’t seen a grown man complain like that in a long time. It was really funny to watch and also quite depressing at the same time.
I’m not saying these kids don’t need a spanking from mommy and daddy, but grow up. I like to grief people on games and it’s funny to get a rise out of them, much in the way you reacted. Just play with voicechat off if you get all flustered because of it.
Keep on FOAMn, lil guy.
One other thing, GTA4 has the N word IN GAME. What are we gonna do, protest Rockstar? We can’t, we like our games too much.
ps: the reason people do it is probably because it’s funny to watch you throw a sissy bitch fit
Stop playing then.
Panzees
xaroth: geez doode. way to not spell veries good.
disclaimer: I’m also tired and did not reread your comment so that I could itemize your mistakes and point them out so everyone can laugh at you. But I can’t help admitted that ‘trolling’ is the in thing these days.
hey adam sessler you know this classic comic sums it up: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
Ugh… People these days talking poopoo on the service. Microsoft doesn’t give a rats ass what people say on there and they need to stand up and take actions.
I remember one time this guy what blasting off racist remarks, and I told him how it was and he left.
I can’ stand hearing little kids cuss, sing, scream, make animal noises, eat loudly, yell at their parents/dog/friends, and just talk about stuff they don’t understand. I can’t wait for the day Glenn Beck or O Reilly catch onto this and a shit storm follows. Then and only then they may start enforcing the rating laws and I won’t have to deal with 10 year old kids on mature games.
For me it’s not about being offended, because I could care less about what some jackass kid is saying, it’s about being annoyed.
Here is the deal: Someone simply needs to start a website that lists the those who are tagged as being the worst offenders, and offers up their screen names. Xbox should monitor that, and suspend those on the list.
*****BTW – If you want to get the racism to stop (in your room only), it’s easy: I’ve been telling the idiots that there is a website where you can plug in their screen name and it will spit out their real name and address, then I tell them that I’m going to publish their real info. That shuts em up right quick.
Xaroth, you’re an idiot.
If you’re uprooting the basic foundations of our society to say “there’s no such thing as a word you shouldn’t say” and then continuing on to say “poorly behaved kids are just acting by their own nature and should be allowed to act that way.” That’s just dumb.
You’re dumb. Stop talking.
if it’s something you don’t want to be a part of then get out. mature games, mature content…
It’s simple. They do it for the lulz.
@xaroth
“youre a nigger fag.”
how did that feel to you? you can insist that it doesn’t affect you but im sure i just offended someone else. i grew up in a town that used “n****” since they first learned to get a rise out of people and guess what, they still use it. you generalize that just because you didnt use it, others wont either. hate to break to you that in other parts of the country, that isn’t the case. everyones point is just to be tolerant of people’s feelings.
@everyone else.
give me a break! insults are exactly what they are, insults. i can call someone retarded and im sure i just offended someone with autism. just because choice words are termed offensive, doesn’t mean other insults aren’t. i think that you parents may be a bunch of hypocrites if you can punish your kids for saying certain words but not for other profanity.
anyway, if you guys dont wanna hear people talking shit or dont want your kids saying a whole bunch of dirty shit, dont buy your kids damn videogames where obviously what they do is kill each other and brag. bad words are gonna be here to stay and dont act like you guys dont say it cuz im sure your kids pick it up from you.
I gotta agree ..i hate it when little kids start swearing and they wont shut up ….its not completely what their sayin it their age and their nonwillingness to shut up for the sake of shuting up …truth im not really offened when a single race slur is used(prob cause im white male idk) but when its repeated over and over screamed in to the mic by a ten year old it pisses me off.
I guarantee that 98% of all of the people you hear saying these profane things are not really racist or homophobic. People find it easier to call someone a f** because it is what they have heard growing up. It’s a reflexive thing.
@Shaman: That would never work. You cannot base a (fair) system of punishment on hearsay.
u c what i mean by the guy above me also prob a white male… i mean if he said it a couple of times watever..personally..but he took 1/2 of the whole scroll bar with that crap and now no one will scrool down to c the other comments..just like online when the kid is screamming Nigger i cant talk to other ppl or hear them
All this rant does is split hairs. Racial and anti-gay words are just as part of some peoples vocab as sh*t and f*ck are for you. Your saying that those words offend you, but what about people who are offended by the cursing you do? Its all point of view. Go back 20 years it was the worst insult possible to utter any “normal” curse word of today. Those words are, in todays society, nothing more than an insult to most people. Its lost its racial or bigoted meaning for many, even most of the ones that are supposed to be insulted by them. If your gonna complain about being insulted then you shouldnt use language that can, in turn, insult or offend others. You cant want both, thats being arrogant.
However, if you really want to get rid of people saying those words then people need to stop being so offended all the time. The way these words became how they are is because people were offended. So, by complaining about this you will do nothing but refuel a fire in most people because offense is all they are looking for. Like you, I dont think that a string of cursing or racial slurs indicates wit or anything like that, but its not likely to stop. Not as long as theres still people who get so bent out of shape from what a 10 year old says in a pub Halo match.
COD4 deffo has the right idea in regards to this problem with the mute feature…i get stuck on a team with someone that’s annoying or offensive, BAM, i mute them & problem solved…..also i have no issues sending in a negative review or complaint on someone who goes over the line…true, while making someone lose 1/2 a star in their rating really isn’t punishment (considering u can have one of your friends give u a positive review to make it go right back up) if everyone did this more often, Microsoft would probably be more inclined to suspend or cancel that persons account…we’ve already seen what they’ve done to Achievement cheaters & those with offensive gamertags, so u know they’re watching
I think everyone is missing the point here…
“And placed at the end so you dont discredit me at the beginning: I’m 18 and have grown up around the online gaming community for 9 years of my life.”
I don’t find the opinion of an 18 year old much better than a 12 year old. Something tells me this kid was in Diablo trade chat as a 12 year old spamming racial slurs like nobody’s business. I think a lot of 18 year olds (99% still living with mommy) have a really big ego because they are labeled an adult and therefor have more life knowledge than anyone else.
So either you are a very ignorant 18 year old or a pretty decent troll. I’ll give your trolling attempt a good C+, and if you really are that ignorant then please spare humanity and DO NOT reproduce.
Adam,
I completely agree. It’s a crock of sh*t to say that it’s a reflective or a “conditioning” thing to use these kind of profanities. I’ve played a fair number of games on Xbox Live, and on other online communities, and I’ve NEVER heard the kind of racism, homophobia, and general hate-speech that I’ve heard on the Live network. It blew my mind. I’ve been called things that people would never say to my face, and frankly it’s disgusting.
I think it is disgusting. I can’t begin to explain why Live is so filled with this type of behaviour, but… like you, I’ve had to start muting my mic when I play, just to keep myself from freaking out at some 11 year old spouting the type of things that are heard daily by players like you and me.
That’s not to say I never utter a simple FU*K! when sniped across a map in Halo 3, or HOLY SH!T when someone runs me down in GTA IV, but that’s the extent of it….
It’s nice to see someone with some media clout shedding some light on this. I doubt it will change anything, but… at least I’m not the only one bothered by this.