Hellgate: London Demo Plagued With Ad-Ware?
By Steve on Friday, October 19th, 2007 at 12:11 AM PST In Computer, Electronic Arts, Game Companies, Game Platforms
Now I know why that guy was pissed.
Unsurprisingly, it looks like the newly released Hellgate: London demo contains some in-game advertisement. Disgruntled community members are voicing their opinions to Voodoo Extreme’s Andrew Burns:
Several angry emails have entered my inbox because people installing the newly released Hellgate: London demo have noticed that the game includes adware, advertising that is integrated into software. Here’s the pertinent section of the license you have to agree to abide by once Hellgate is installed onto your system:
The Software incorporates technology of Massive Incorporated (”Massive”) that enables in-game advertising, and the display of other similar in-game objects, which are uploaded temporarily to your personal computer or game console and replaced during online game play. As part of this process, Massive may collect your Internet protocol address and other basic anonymous information, and will use this information for the general purposes of transmitting and measuring in-game advertising. Massive does not store or use any of this information for the purpose of discovering your personal identity. For additional details regarding Massive’s in-game advertising practices, and to understand your options with respect to in-game advertising and data collection, please see Massive’s privacy policy. The trademarks and copyrighted material contained in all in-game advertising are the property of the respective owners. Portions of this product are © 2007 Massive Incorporated. All rights reserved.
For the time being the only adverts are posters on walls in certain areas, though with the adware fully integrated into the game you could soon be beating back Zombie Summoners with the Sword of Soft Drinks, 6-15 Coke splash damage per successful hit. Or perhaps the Gun of Crashing, Vista Edition, as Massive are owned by Microsoft.
Get over it folks; in-game advertisement is the new trend. Demos, betas, servers, bandwidth, etc. aren’t magically free. Besides, if it doesn’t distract from enjoying the game, what is the harm?
Ten years from now, when every retail game on the market has some form of in-game advertisement, we’ll all be looking back on this and laughing. I can think of more constructive ways to bitch about a game: *cough* subscription model *cough*
Via Voodoo Extreme
“Demos, betas, servers, bandwidth, etc. aren’t magically free”
They have been free up until recently or at least the purchase price of the games themselves has paid for their own ongoing costs and support. Remember this ad integration is not just happening in free games and demos. It is happening in full price games sold at retail as well. If the purchase price of a game is no longer sufficient to pay for the game’s production and support, then it’s time to either raise the purchase price to cover the supposedly higher production costs or to overhaul game production, distribution, sales, marketing, and support practices to lower costs so that such in-game advertising is not mandatory for the customer to play a game he purchases with his hard-earned money.
“Besides, if it doesn’t distract from enjoying the game, what is the harm?”
Even IF the advertisements themselves didn’t visually detract from the game (and that is a big “if” since the whole idea of advertising is for it to be noticed), the biggest detraction to this in-game advertising in video games is that the ads are a two-way street. With traditional ads on radio and television, consumers are simply presented with ads for them to hear or watch. With these in-game advertising systems in video games such as Massive’s mentioned in this news story, consumers are not only being presented with advertisements to view in the game, but they are also having their actions, habits, and playing time in the game collected and logged along with their Internet addresses and details about their PC’s. In addition Hellgate’s EULA even authorizes the sharing of all of this personal data with companies other than the game’s developer and publisher. In short, consumers are not just viewing ads; they are also being viewed by the advertisers and others.
Consumers don’t have to become “Nielsen families” in order to watch television, so they sure as hell shouldn’t have to become the computer-equivalent in order to play video games. It’s 2007 not 1984.
I really dont care about advertising in games as long as it isn’t completely out of context and invasive. In fact I would like to see more of it in some games because it adds to the realism. For instance having advertising billboards in a racing game updating online to always show current adds for the latest films or products would keep the game looking fresh.
I was totally going to buy this game.. had 2 copies reserved.. guess I won’t now
I guess the 3 hours it took to download the demo were a waste, because I sure as hell ain’t gonna install it now
[quote]Get over it folks; in-game advertisement is the new trend.[/quote]
It’s not a new trend that corperations have been trying to push, and if the gaming community hasn’t bothered pushing back everyones personal character in MMOs would probibly have a manditory corperate logo slapped to the back of thier head. I see that Andrew Burns is proud to freely state he is a consumer whore, but there is too much damn marketing crap in the real world as it is. I was interested in picking up a copy myself, but hearing this makes me change my mind aswell.
“Demos, betas, servers, bandwidth, etc. aren’t magically free”
Yeah that’s what my $60 pays for when I buy the game.
I’ll play the game with ads, but not after I pay 59.95 for it.
Just like I don’t pay for TV with commercials.
Give me an option to either play the commercial free version for my retail purchase of let me play the free version where I’ll gladly look at your 30 second commercial break between levels and in game billboards.
But I won’t do both.
Oh and the price of bandwith and servers, has PLUMMETED over the last few years. Not gone up. And seeing as how diablo, quake, tribes et al managed to rake in fortunes even while being free there is no excuse other than being greedy corporate as@$*!#$ for making us pay to play online. And now hellgate wants to make us pay to play then sybscribe to play online AND display ads? No thanks. I’m skipping this one. I’m not that desperate to line someone else’s pockets three different ways with my time and hard earned cash.
Anyone who subscribes to cable tv is paying for commercials.
When we buy a game what are we really allowed to do with it. People say they own it but you can’t make copies of it. If it’s a pc game I believe there is a limit to the amount of different pcs you can play it on. You are basically renting your games for $60 and you get to keep it indefinitely.
I honestly don’t have an opinion about this specific issue because I don’t have any games with ads and I’m not sure how intrusive these adaware things are. But deciding not to buy a game you were absolutely interested in because of ads is kinda strange to me. I could always change my mind on this but I’m really up in the air on this one.
“You are basically renting your games for $60 and you get to keep it indefinitely.”
While that is tangential to the issue of ads and user tracking in games, that statement is only really true for games “sold” on systems like Steam which can actually enforce their EULA’s and unilaterally terminate the customer’s access to his games. Regardless of what is written in the game’s EULA, unless the developer or publisher has the technical means to enforce that EULA by using a copy-protection/DRM system like Steam to terminate the customer’s ability to play the game (which is not the case for games which rely exclusively on media/disc-based copy-protection), such restrictions in EULA’s are moot.
“I’m not sure how intrusive these adaware things are”
They place ad images in the game and gather information on each player’s computer and how they view the ads and play the game. That’s invasive to me.
“But deciding not to buy a game you were absolutely interested in because of ads is kinda strange to me”
It’s called putting principles before pleasures. Giving financial support to a company by buying its products when you detest them on principle would only encourage more of the same. The way to keep ads and consumer tracking from taking a real foothold and being incorporated into every game is for consumers to refuse to purchase games which have such ads and tracking in them.
The way steam works though is a bit different than you might expect, you can have all your games installed on as many PC’s as you want, you just cannot access them unless you are logged in to an account that has purchased which ever ones you are trying to play. Thats a different topic though. The game is fun and all but I don’t think I’m going to buy it, i just can’t bring myself to support ad’s and tracking in my games.. no matter how unobtrusive they are. I agree with Phil here.
“The way steam works…you just cannot access them unless you are logged in to an account that has purchased which ever ones you are trying to play.”
My point is that per both the Steam terms of service and technical means, Valve can permanently terminate a customer’s account and deny all access to his games at any time for any reason without compensation or reimbursemnent. Steam is essentially a game rental service masquerading as a digital game sales vehicle due to its DRM/authentication implementation and accompanying terms of service. Steam’s past unreliability and unavailability for many customers especially during popular game releases is a testament to its fickle and undependable nature.
“Steam’s past unreliability and unavailability for many customers especially during popular game releases is a testament to its fickle and undependable nature.”
Your blind hatred towards Valve has never been more bloody obvious than now, Phil.
To take a single event in Steam’s history and condemn it as a completely unreliable service is a rather ignorant observation on your part, Phil. There’s no denying Steam had a rocky start (and they wouldn’t be the first). But the past is the past. Today, it’s clearly obvious Steam is proven technology. Otherwise, why would the community continue to support Valve by using it? You only have to authenticate once and then your purchased games can be played in ‘offline mode’ without any internet connection required from that point forward (it works, trust me). In the case of multiplayer, well that remains to be seen. The problem is, there have been no recent major catastrophic events to prove what a major downtime will bring to Steam users. According to Valve, in the event that Steam should go down permanently (through an act of God or terroristic event), they (Valve) will disable authentication entirely. This has supposedly been tested in-house. I don’t think any Chicken Little is going to scare me away. Permanent is an awfully long time.
Besides, is there anything different here that WoW players experience when servers have downtime? Oh yeah, they get “time” compenstation. Lest we forget that Steam charges us NOTHING a month to use. Other than that, it is WoW.
When you install a game with online capability, you generally have to accept an EULA that basically says “I am OK with YOU changing MY online experience…blah…blah”. If you think purchasing a game that has online capability entitles you to play it however you want, you are living in a fantasy world. Welcome to the present: You don’t own shit. You are paying to play under someone else’s conditions. Don’t like it? Fine, don’t buy it.
The same goes for ads. You can bitch and moan; hell, you can boycott the game for all I care. I can almost guarantee you most of the time you’re going to be the minority voice. Shit happens. Deal with it.
If the vast majority of the public is ok with it, then the industry will continue to do as they please. This IS the trend.
Still, it amazes me how people bitch & moan about the more frivolous things in the gaming industry. That’s ok, because you’ll continue to be the source of my amusement. Bitch on…
“Your blind hatred towards Valve.”
If you actually had the intelligence to comprehend what I write, you would see that my dislike of Valve is NOT blind at all. It is specific, factually-based, and reasoned which is everything that your reply is not.
“To take a single event in Steam’s history and condemn it as a completely unreliable service is a rather ignorant observation on your part, Phil.”
I supposed it could be ignorant IF I considered a single event. I didn’t. Steam has proven itself to be unreliable many times for many users in its short history. I am NOT just alluding to one event, and if you weren’t so ignorant you would see that, e.g. “during popular game releaseS.”
“There’s no denying Steam had a rocky start…Today, it’s clearly obvious Steam is proven technology.”
The only thing that Steam has proven is that customers cannot depend on it with certainty that they can play the games that require it whenever they want in virtual perpetuity. Valve makes NO guarantees of availability or warranty for Steam in the Steam Subscriber Agreement (see 9.C. NO GUARANTEES of http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=subscriber_agreement ), and in Steam’s four year history it has certainly delivered on that commitment with multiple outages and availability problems.
“Otherwise, why would the community continue to support Valve by using it?”
There are two simple reasons for that. First, PC game consumers as a whole really like Valve’s games and are willing to put up with Steam because there is simply no legal alternative means to run the games they love and in many cases to which they are addicted. That is exactly why around 50% of online players of Counterstrike and other Half-Life 1-based games didn’t migrate to Steam until Valve completely shutdown its WON support. Even making Counterstrike 1.6 require Steam wasn’t enough to get that huge number of players to switch to Steam until it was forced upon them when WON support was terminated by Valve on July 31, 2004. If all players actually wanted Steam, they would have chosen it instead of Valve chosing it for them.
Second, many if not most consumers don’t realize the precarious nature of Steam until it fails, and at that point it is too late for them to do anything about it as Valve already has their money and does not offer refunds. Most consumers don’t bother to read the Steam Subcriber Agreement let alone understand it, so they are simply unaware that Valve makes no guarantees of availability with Steam and has the right to terminate a Steam account or any offered game at any time (see 13. TERM AND TERMINATION).
“You only have to authenticate once and then your purchased games can be played in ‘offline mode’ without any internet connection required from that point forward (it works, trust me).”
No, it is not that simple. First, offline mode has many limitations. First it only works for a specific user account where the user has chosen to save the login credentials by not checking the “Do not store account information” option. For security reasons, saving one’s Steam login in this manner is NOT a smart thing to do since the files that store it can be stolen. Second, offline mode requires that the PC be totally offline. The Steam network is made up of many different types of servers/hosts, and all of Steam must be totally unreachable for offline mode to be enabled. That is a main reason why offline mode won’t work unless a user pulls the network cable from his PC or turns off his wireless router. Third, even when Steam does go into offline mode, that doesn’t mean that a game will launch. If a game’s status is not at 100% because Steam detected an available update the last time the user was online but didn’t download and install it, the game won’t launch even in offline mode until that update for the game is downloaded and installed. Fourth, sometimes even when Steam should go into offline mode it won’t. That happened to quite a few people during the Seattle power outage in December 2006 according to reports on the official Steam support forums. Finally, even when all of these conditions are met and offline mode works, if the user ever checks the “Do not save account information” box in Steam (which is easy to accidently do), he will have to reauthenticate via the Internet again before offline mode will work. The user will also have to reauthenticate if he performs substantial upgrades to his PC or to his Windows installation or replaces his PC because Steam’s offline mode also uses a hash which is tied to the PC’s hardware and is stored in the Windows registry to determine if offline mode should be enabled.
“The problem is, there have been no recent major catastrophic events to prove what a major downtime will bring to Steam users.”
First, you must have your head in the sand or up Valve’s ass because Steam has suffered a number of major outages in its relatively short history. The last one of which I am aware began on Deceember 15, 2006. Second, it doesn’t take a total failure of Steam for only some users to receive “connection failures” and be unable to play their games. If you want to see plenty of users with such problems simply comb through the official Steam support forums at http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17 .
“According to Valve, in the event that Steam should go down permanently (through an act of God or terroristic event), they (Valve) will disable authentication entirely.”
That is purely speculation which is unsubstantiated by the Steam Subscriber Agreement. While I have no doubt that Valve has the capability to disable Steam’s authentication requirements because hackers have certainly done it and offer such cracks for Steam, Valve had made no such legally binding commitment to its customers that it would ever remove the authentication from any game. The only legally binding agreement between Valve and its customers regarding the availability of Steam is the Steam Subscriber Agreement, and it states that in the event of account or product termination Valve is NOT obligated to provide access to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated.
Any supposed statements regarding the possible removal of the authetication on Steam by anyone of Valve including Gabe Newell himself are simply non-binding speculation. Valve could certainly make such guarantees in the Steam Subscriber Agreement and make them enforceable if it were really serious about guaranteeing that its customers would have long-term and/or guaranteed access to their purchased games. However, Valve has not done so. In addition in the absence of such a legally binding guarantee of availability to its customers, there is no guarantee that Valve would even be legally able to remove the authentication in the event of a buyout or merger, etc. The only guarantee that Steam users have is that there is no guarantee that they can play the games for which they paid.
“Besides, is there anything different here that WoW players experience when servers have downtime?”
WOW players explicitly know that they are playing a tenuous subscription game because they are billed for it each month.
“Lest we forget that Steam charges us NOTHING a month to use. Other than that, it is WoW.”
And, yet, Valve doesn’t overtly and plainly state that fact. The Steam Subscriber Agreement is not presented to the user at the time of retail purchase, and once the box has been opened, it cannot be returned for refund even if the user objects to the agreement. The vague label on the box that says “internet connection required” is far too general to convey the terms and rrestrictions that Steam imposes upon the customer for the consumer to make an informed decision about the subscriber agreement prior to purchase of the product.
“If you think purchasing a game that has online capability entitles you to play it however you want, you are living in a fantasy world.”
I didn’t and don’t claim otherwise.
“Don’t like it? Fine, don’t buy it.”
Thank you, parrot. I and others here have already stated above that we won’t buy it.
“If the vast majority of the public is ok with it, then the industry will continue to do as they please. This IS the trend.”
Sure the companies in the video game industry will continue to exploit the horde of ignorant consumers like you. However, just because those consumers are too stupid to know any better or too lazy to resist doesn’t mean that exploiting them is the right thing to do.
“That’s ok, because you’ll continue to be the source of my amusement.”
That’s because you’re too stupid to learn from my insights and experience. I don’t find you funny though. I find you pathetic as any intelligent person would.
We’re not ingorant we just don’t care about miniscule things like an Nvidia poster on the wall of a video game world.
“We’re not ingorant we just don’t care about miniscule things like an Nvidia poster on the wall of a video game world.”
You are ignorant if you think that is all there is to these in-game ad and tracking implementations.
I agree with Phil.
Wow Phil…
“That’s because you’re too stupid to learn from my insights and experience. I don’t find you funny though. I find you pathetic as any intelligent person would.”
You argue like a grade-schooler.
Just thought you should know.
your a fool, people are not going to tolerate this. If anyting in game advertising will drive up pirating and drive down sales – this could lead only to more ingame advertising but corporations will eventually be forced to submit to the consumer. I myself take pride in pirating games with drm and adware such as bioshock and battlefield 2142 and I think everybody who does should when the gaming industry is attempting to go the way of the enormous pile of shitmess music industry. I will be looking at this in game advertising 10 years from now and laughing at the pathetic attempt of companies trying to bring tv and music style drm into games and how feeble it was because you can be rest assured I will get around it.
“You argue like a grade-schooler.
Just thought you should know.”
Shkats, if that’s what you actually think, then you certainly don’t think very well especially not as well as a grade-schooler.
LOL
Yea Phil, “You argue like a grade-schooler.” Man up and argue like the rest of us and stop making so much sense and so many valid points.
ROFL, Phil, don’t waste your time on these idiots. They specifically stated that they are. And whisp is right. I myself use steam because couple games, that I like, work only on it, and so far steam never failed me. BUT in case steam does go down, crack for it is the next thing that I will download. I’m not going to pirate unless they force me to, and I DON’T GIVE A SHIT, about how legal that is. There’s millions of pirates, all over the globe, you won’t get us all >:Da
lol phil if i argue like a grade schooler then you should be able to stomp all over my arugments pretty easily but you didnt? maybe its cuz im right and your wrong and the proof is in the pudding and u have nothing to shoot back with in regard to any of my comments lol. Its like when u rape somebody in a video game and they make fun of u for trying.
he had aimed that at Shkats (the guy who said it hence the quotes) not you. you both have similar points on how the community needs to take a stand and not put up with this crap.
“phil if i argue like a grade schooler then you should be able to stomp all over my arugments pretty easily but you didnt?”
whisp,
First, that reply was not directed at you. It was a reply to Shkats who posted above you. Do you see the word “Shkats” in my reply? That means my comment was directed at him. In addition I included Shkats’s original comment to me in quotes before my reply to show exactly to which of his comments I was replying.
Second, I don’t think you argue like a grade-schooler because quite frankly most grade-schoolers are more literate than you are (or at least I hope they are). To call your writing “English” is an insult to the English. You seriously need to learn how to read and write and then make use of it when you read and post here.
lol u scrub, i am an editor for my school newspaper where i am going to have my own tech column next semeseter. if u think ima compose an essay and edit it and reedit it on forum posts n stuff then think again i dont think it matters that much or else id type with capital i’s and such.. also been getting straight A’s on all my essays from a 4 year college so i dont need u to tell me how good or bad i am at writing.. lol
whisp,
“i am an editor for my school newspaper”
If you write in it as you do here, I bet it’s printed on toilet paper or should be.
“also been getting straight A’s on all my essays from a 4 year college”
If you still write like you do now when you finish college, whoever paid for your education will deserve a refund because you won’t be educated.
The only way to prove that you know how to write correctly and coherently is to actually do it. Try again.
ugh u noob – “if u think ima compose an essay and edit it and reedit it on forum posts n stuff then think again i dont think it matters that much or else id type with capital i’s and such.”
i dont care enough to compose myself i got other stuff to do like compose actual articles for the paper. when i do em right they take about 4 hours so ya i dont care enough u win if u want whatever
Has anyone considered that the in-game advertising and EA’s selling out to advertisers isn’t because they don’t expect to sell enough copies of the game? Could it possibly, JUST MAYBE, be to pay for the server space that they will have to upkeep so that people are able to play for free or for $5/mo less than other more well-established MMOs? This isn’t D2. I’m assuming that server space for more advanced games cost more than space for older, less graphically intensive games, although I could be wrong.
If you really hate the adverts that much, just unplug your internet and play single player. No one will think any less of you.
just my thoughts.
Phil is right on.
You’re all retarded.
“Get over it folks; in-game advertisement is the new trend.”
And since when does that make something right or wrong?
Cheap manual labour in developing countries was a trend for a while, as was slavery. If you want to lay down and roll over, go ahead, I’ll stick right here with my ideals and my spine in tact though, thank you.
I’m not against the advertisements, it would in fact add to the immersion in the case of posters, billboards, or dropped flyers, but when a “Diet gun of cola”, or tracking ones actions are concerned, I have a problem, if a major production firm employed someone to follow you around all day after purchasing one of their products, so that they can better advertise to you in future, I think there’d be a problem.
Phil you’re a condescending and conceded prick. It’s great how people that don’t think the same way as you are ignorant. You can’t be wrong ever, and might as well “flex” that “intellectual superiority” wile you’re at it too right? Get over yourself.
Also it’s really awesome to compare in game advertising to slavery. Because you know… They are the same thing. Remember everyone if you see an add you’re entitled to reparations like the descendants of slaves.
There have been many “trends” in the past few years, and most of them have turned a majority of people on the internet into idiotic fucktards with the grammar and spelling of a 12 year old.
When I read that they are pulling this advertising crap I immediately cancelled my pre-ordered versions of hellgate at the local mall. I no universe will I pay money to be barraged with advertismenets. Count me out of this, and any game that has in game ads. No game is good enought to justify it. None. Zip.
If the video game industry wants to walk their products down the same dead-man’s path as newspapers, magazines, and network television, good luck to them – the greedy bastards can sink and drown just like those industries are right now. Every week, as more newspapers, magazines tank, and the T.V. raiting slump further and further, I can’t help but smile.
Count me out of this game.
to SilverDeth, the reason those industries are slumping is because of the internet.
to k7991, that is one way to look at it. though it may seem idiotic, it is also true that it is easier and faster to type that way. grammar and spelling is simply a way to express yourself. it is not related to actual ability. which side is idiotic is questionable.
Rabid:
“Also it’s really awesome to compare in game advertising to slavery. Because you know… They are the same thing. Remember everyone if you see an add you’re entitled to reparations like the descendants of slaves.”
Oh come now, I wasn’t comparing in game advertising to slavery in any sense beyond the fact that it was widely accepted initially also, and if you’re either incapable of realising that, or if the only thing you can say about my post is that it lacked clarity to the point that an idiot can misinterpret it, then you’re on rather shaky ground.
Nien: of course, i have seen my fair share of people making idiotic comments with acceptable spelling, so yes, it can go both ways, but i have found it rare to see intelligent points put forward by someone speaking in IM-speak outside of where it was originally intended to be used (that being, obviously, AIM/MSN and OL Game chatrooms)
“Phil you’re a condescending and conceded prick. It’s great how people that don’t think the same way as you are ignorant. You can’t be wrong ever, and might as well “flex” that “intellectual superiority” wile you’re at it too right? Get over yourself.”
Rabid, you need to get yourself to a dictionary and learn how to spell. Only then might you deserve to be taken seriously.
The internet is location people are fleeing. Not the reason
If the companies turn the games that the masses are flocking into the same ad-soaked mess people fled in the first place… they will leave again – I know I did, and I have not missed cable TV since we cancelled it 6 years ago. Same reason we stopped going to movies – the ads before them for 30 min just got to be absurd.
All those industries are failing – not because of the internet itself – but due to the internet offering entertainment, news, and information that has not been strangled to death in a mass of ads – although I do tend to avoid websites that chokethemselves to deathw ith advertisements too.
Make the web as bad as network TV, and people will move away from that medium as well – particularly when you introduce the advertisement factor into pay to play services.
Sorry, pass on this game – and my passing on it means the 60 people in our gaming group will most likely pass as well. Word of mouth is a great thing. Sorry Bill roper, you do great work, but… in game adds in a pay to play game?
Sorry sir. I think your games are generally good enough to be worth paying money for – if a sub and 60.00 at the shelf is not enough i’d pay more – like I said… Roper an the Schaeffer borthers do excellent work – but I won’t pay for EA ads. Sorry sirs.
Aye, in game advertising is a new low in the industry.
It’s nice to play a game and immerse yourself in a fictional world for a while without being beat over the head with real world advertisements that really have no place in the games universe.
I mean in a game that takes place in modern day (like a racing game for example) then the revelantingame advertising would make sense (although be no less offending on principle and info collection) but in a game like Hellgate? Um the worlds a pile of ruin and most corps are burned out blasted apart buildings so why the hell is Nivida and Darkhorse posters up all over the place? (let alone be changing them over time to tout new products)
It’d be nice to see something in the gaming enrioment relative to the game itself, such as maps of safe zone locations, recruitment posters for the templars, etc..
This kind of crap is just a thinly veiled attempt to make the company more $$$$ plain and simple.
Also on a side note, they DO charge for subscritoions (they have a free option but it’s quite limited) So ingame advertising PLUS paying a monthly fee PLUS having to buy the game???!
How greedy can these bastiches be?
I agree with Whisp, stuff like this is why piracy is on the rise and will continue to grow.
Also with the absolute zero customer support Hellgate is offering (check their offical forums you’ll see) the game isn’t worth the hassle even if they paid YOU to play it.
Phil, you deliver your opinions like santa delivers gifts, perfectly.
Everyone who in one way or another tries to “beat” Phil in an arguement has proven to be verbally retarded. Sure, don’t agree with him, but you still wont “win” any conversations you have with him.
Phil was blessed by the gods with supreme conversational skills.
I bow down to thee.
// OaMJ, 15 – Sweden
“Phil you’re a condescending and conceded prick. It’s great how people that don’t think the same way as you are ignorant. You can’t be wrong ever, and might as well “flex” that “intellectual superiority” wile you’re at it too right? Get over yourself.”
“Rabid, you need to get yourself to a dictionary and learn how to spell. Only then might you deserve to be taken seriously.”
Well… Lets just face the truth here, both of you. Phil is NEVER wrong.
“Well… Lets just face the truth here, both of you. Phil is NEVER wrong.”
The irony here is that I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
This about sums up this thread:
http://photos.commongate.com/11/38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg