Don’t Worry, Blizzard Isn’t Dumbing Down World of Warcraft
By Ron on Wednesday, March 5th, 2008 at 6:05 PM PST In Blizzard, Computer, Editor's Corner, Features, Game Companies, Game Platforms, Games, World of Warcraft
So, as a World of Warcraft player and a person who follows the gaming world fairly closely, I tend to read a lot of forums. With the upcoming 2.4 content patch currently on the Public Test Realms (hereafter referred to as PTR), the WoW Test Realm Forum (found here) is a great place to see how players are liking the upcoming content and class changes.
Judging from the forum posts I have seen, one of the more controversial changes coming in the 2.4 patch is the removal of attunements for the Mount Hyjal and Black Temple 25-man raid instances, and the introduction of gear that can be purchased with Badges of Justice that is on par with Hyjal/Black Temple drops. At first glance, the non-MMO player would wonder why this, of all things, would be a point of contention. Personally, I wonder what mindset makes players think this is a bad idea.
A perfect place to see what I am talking about is this thread. A player named ‘Fsgadgdsafhg’ offers up the following opinion:
All the T6 raiding guilds old and new are dumbfounded and hung up on the insane devaluing of their arcievements. Everything we worked for raidnights after raidnights, week after week is getting handled out for frickin Badges.
Its one thing that attunements are lifted… Trashmobs and early bosses will take care of the trash guilds. But for christ sake why hand out gear, and now gems too for as much effort as running Heroics. How is it comparable to the countless hours of attunement process, the consumables,the effort?
At least pretend that hardcore raiders are important and introduce some kind of reward or recognition.
This represents what I believe to be a fundamentally flawed viewpoint. This represents the elitist, exclusionist attitude that many casual players have long said makes MMO’s less fun for them. The idea that giving more players access to dungeons or loot devalues the accomplishments of those who have already completed those challenges is ridiculous. Why? It’s simple.
Let’s say you hand me a list of guilds that play regularly on my server. With a small margin for error, I have a decent idea of the progression level of most of those guilds. I know that the Alliance side of my server has a number of MH/BT guilds, including 2 of the top guilds in the US. I also know that we have a few guilds on Horde side working on Black Temple as well. After this patch, I will still know who those guilds are, and what they accomplished. I will still know that Risen cleared Black Temple first on our server (Even if they are Alliance, you still have to respect that). No matter what my guild, or any other guild does after this patch, what came before still remains.
To truly understand why these changes are being made, the players have to step back and look at things from Blizzard’s point of view. Blizzard pumps a ton of time and design money into all the content they release, and as such, they want players to be able to experience it. Think back, if you will, to when Blizzard released the 1.11 patch (Patch Notes). They added in what is widely considered to be the best raid dungeon they’ve ever designed, Naxxramas. Unfortunately, due to the difficulty of the dungeon, the gear required, and the looming release of the Burning Crusade expansion, only a minuscule fraction of the raiding population got to experience it.
I’m sure you’ve heard by now that Blizzard plans to move Naxxramas to Northrend for the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, and to make it the first 25-man raid for level 80 players. In an interview with MMO-Gamer.com, World of Warcraft’s Lead Designer, Jeff Kaplan, talked about the move, saying,
“Now, in regards to some of the more difficult raid content, like Naxxramas, or like Black Temple, I think there is some validity to what you’re saying, that not enough people are getting to see the content. In direct response to that, we want to take Naxxramas, what we felt was possibly one of our best dungeons in terms of game design, in terms of cool encounters, great art, it had some of the best music out of any of our zones, and a lot of people missed it, and I think they missed it for a couple reasons: One, it was super hardcore, it was our hardest dungeon of original World of Warcraft, the other reason is that it came only a few months before The Burning Crusade. I think a lot more people would have gotten the chance to experience it if they had the time to progress, but since they didn’t, they missed it.”
As you can see, they want people to experience this content. They want people to see the fruits of the massive labors they’ve put into this content. Honestly, can you blame them? If you had written a spectacular novel, but your publisher said he could sell it to a few hundred people, would you be happy with that? I highly doubt it.
The same goal explains why the new badge gear is on par with tier 6 loot. Simply put, Blizzard wants these players to have a chance in these raids. No one likes to head into a raid knowing that you’re severely undergeared and likely to fail miserably. Not only this, but guilds who have just finished or nearly finished Black Temple can benefit from this as well, making their transition into the newest raid instance, the Sunwell Plateau, much more smooth.
The only people against this change are the hardcore raiding elitists who feel that it is sacrilege to allow guilds that are behind in progression a chance to see content that they might not have been able to see otherwise. These hardcore folks don’t want the vast majority of players to see this content simply so they can feel superior, and that’s just wrong. There are a ton of guilds out there that are playing through Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep right now, lacking only a Vashj or Kael kill to get into Mount Hyjal. Sure, those fights are difficult, and they help get you ready for the next tier of raids. But keeping those guilds from ever experiencing Hyjal or Black Temple is simply not good business, and Blizzard has the good sense to know it.
Now, this is not to say that all hardcore raiders share these sentiments. On the contrary, I believe the number of people harboring these elitist attitudes to be very small. I know a number of hardcore raiders who are wonderful, nice people, and I am proud to know them. They are willing to help out whenever they can if needed, and the community on our server is better for having them in it. It’s unfortunate that the vocal minority often gives these types of players a bad reputation.
Hardcore raiders make up a small percentage of the players in MMO’s like WoW, and they represent the least profitable players for the company running the game. However, they are often catered to as the ‘core’ audience in MMO’s. Luckily, this obviously isn’t the case in World of Warcraft, and the game and the vast majority of its players are better off for it. Let the folks in casual guilds get their badges, and their gear, and their shots at the top raid instances. They’ll have fun, and Blizzard will reap the rewards of a happy playerbase. That’s something we can all benefit from. Remember, it’s a game, and we play it to have fun. If everyone playing an MMO could hold that thought foremost in their mind, they’d be better off for it.
What do you think? Should Blizzard be opening these areas to a larger percentage of players, or should these high level areas be the exclusive preserve of the raiding elite?
Basically, Blizzard is doing two things with this patch. First, they are making it possible for those who are not dedicated to progression able to progress just as fast as those who are. Secondly, they are creating WoW Welfare.
If you would like an analogy, here goes: I work very hard at my job, to the point where I have pissed other workers off with how many raises I have gotten. I enjoy work, its a challenge for me. I right now am only able to afford a fairly decent car, a 2002 Hyundai Accent. It works well for the price. I live in a decent neighborhood, where rent is fairly balanced. Its not the ghetto, but not the best place in town. I make sure I work enough to pay for what I have, even though at times it can be hard. So should it bother me that the next punk, who works at a job getting paid 5.50 under the table, claims he has no income to the government, and receives welfare, lives in subsidized housing for little to no cost(which is generally now up to par with houses that sell for 500k in my area), gets to drive a BMW and eat at restaurants I could only dream of, all the while smiling as he rapes my country and gives back only the minimum amount required? Hell yes! Blizz is going to destroy any integrity they had by making it so it requires no skill or effort to win. Its like those kids who think they are something special because they managed to graduate from High School. Great, you have only accomplished what hundreds of millions of other kids have, and quite possibly with more style than you. Blizz needs to add something to strive for, to desire working for. Otherwise, why play? If its just as easy to win the game as it is to turn my PC on, Ill just leave it off. Leave those who want a mindless game to play bejeweled or spend hours numbing their mind to those games on yahoo.com.
I, personally, think like Badwabbit. It certainly feels like a ripoff to have all you’ve worked hard for during serveral months, just be handed out on a silver plate to the masses, that for one reason or another, are incapable to get it before it’s nerfed to oblivion.
Many of the ppl that arguments that the content should be open up to the masses, seem to have a bit of a more sloppy attitude. Like “family, friends and real life comes first” and “It’s just a game, it’s suppose to be fun”. Fine. But it still doesn’t answer why the absolute latest content should be avilable straight off right after the “hardcore” players have finished it. If you’re not hardcore, you can still go raid MC, BWL, AQ40 and NAXX, now can’t you? But no..? It ain’t fun? Why? Becuase all them casual player with all so important real lifes wanna just log in, grab some gear and stand around in Ironforge and go “ooh, look at me new shiny loot”? Honestly.. come on. If you wanna play the game for fun, then do so. Just stop expecting the best and the latest of things to be handed to you. If you wanna see all the content, fine.. then do so. Find equal minded and go raid Naxxramas. All those arguements can be fulfilled without robbing the hardcore player base of their achievements.
Oh, and @AFK..
Why should achievments in a game be any less then other games, like soccer for example? There you got a bunch of idiots all chasing the same ball, and for that hundreds of thousands of people gather, cheer and passivly watch the shit. And for those that “achieve” in that, they throw millions at.. *cough*Beckham*cough*. Oh yeah, you are absolute right.. games.. what a ridiculous thing. ^^
You all do realize that WOTLK is coming out soon right? So what if they make some stuff that hardcore raiders worked their asses off, easier for casuals to get. More than likely everything will start over again in the next XP. TBH for everyone that is upset that gear is being given out, o well. It may not be completely fair but thats life. Like some people have said, we all pay the same amount for this game and want to see all of the content it has to offer.
I cant help but to agree with the post above me. I raided Bwl, Mc, tk, ssc, and am about to embark upon hyjal/bt. I personally do not have a issue with making badge gear as good as BT/hyjal loot, the only outcome I see from this change is alot of people that may be considered “casual players” getting good loot and progressing in the game, but I have looked through the sunwell loot and the new badge loot and from a teir 5 element shamans POV, I’d still take some BT loot over badge loot Because according to my specs and comparisons, if I want haste gear, go badge but if i want true dps gear, go raiding.
and as far as the attunment issue, the difference between raid guilds that are successful and those whom come up short is coordination. Even if these lower casual players get their shinny new badge gear, it takes commitment and coordination to succeed in raids, and if new high end raid guilds emerge, all I have to say is welcome, is that such a bad thing?
As far as personally what I want for next expansion is enough challenge with the new hero classes to help balance the serious pvp and Pve flaws and gaps between certain classes, for instance, locks need some serious work, a class that can top DPS meters AND giggle as they fear bomb and dot classes to death is unreal… but thats neither here nor there. all I’m saying is balance the classes and give us some challenging content anyone can step up to the plate and challenge, no matter how much they play.
I agree with the sentiments in this article. Some people simply cannot devote the time and effort required to get to the higher level instances (props to those that can and do). I, for example, am a ‘mature age player’ (that’s putting it lightly) who has a family and I am also a shiftworker. It is simply not possible for me to put in the hours needed each and every night required to get to the higher level content. No hardcore raiding guild would have me because of my situation, but I would love to be able to get to see the higher level content. This is a way that I can see the content while not being a drag on the group. I do, however, have to put in the time running the Heroics over and over again to get the badges to get the gear so I can contribute to the group on the odd occasion I am available to go to the instance. This also enables the more casual player to be able to ‘fill in’ when a hard core guild needs one or two geared players to fill in on a raid. How many times have even the hardest core guild had to call off a raid because some people were not able to make it on a particular night? I see this as a ‘win-win’ move by Blizzard.
I’m fine with the attunements being opened up and the gear being given out like that. It doesn’t take away the accomplishments raiders have. If anything it takes it away from the people who didn’t do all that beforehand. They don’t get to feel how it felt to bash your head against a wall trying to learn kael then finally it clicks and he dies. They don’t get the sense of accomplishment of finally getting the guild ready for hyjal/BT. It’s their loss not ours.
To those thinking raiders are assholes, elistest, etc. Sorry but most of the comments made towards raiders aren’t any better. I don’t really see how making comments about the time raiders put in is witty, intelligent, or mature. You think it’s more like work? Fine, but it’s not really your business to judge us on that. I don’t really care if you say that to the idiots crying about this issue but guess what, not all of us are and your blanketing stereotypical remarks make you just as much of an idiot as they are. So gratz on “having a life outside of wow” no one gives much of a shit. Just go see your new content (if you can make it through it) and shut up about it.
I truly do agree with the last few replies. My guild on a newer server is the top alliance guild. We’ve worked tremendously hard to get down Vashj, and Kael. We’ve been able to kill all but the last Hyjal boss and the first two bosses in BT. We worked our butts off to get these down before the patch. Why? Cause we wanted to EARN the privilege of seeing the instances the way they were meant to be played. I do understand that most guilds that haven’t worked as hard as we have, will not be able to progress very far into the instances. I also know that the ones of us who have gotten the items legitimately will not respect the players that buy their gear with badges. It’s not pretty to say, but ultimately it’s true.
Yes, Blizzard is a business. Yes, they need to keep their fan base happy. However, it is essential for people to have something to work towards, even if it seems unattainable. Otherwise, it will get old very fast.
I would hate to see level 10 toons with epic mounts, just because it would make more casual people happy to have mounts at 10 instead of 40, 60, or 70. Catering to the lowest common denominator works if all you want is mediocrity. But nothing exceptional ever comes from that attitude.
I am so happy my 65yr. friend is going to get into Kara, Gruul, SSC, and TK. I can’t stop smiling about the few hundreds who are going to quit the game (I am tired of log-in que’s) I play on a PVE server (RPPVE) not a PVP one because I got very sick of some 12yr. player who spent every Hr. in BG’s (insted of doing school/home work till “it’s” parents forced “it” in to bed) with PVP gear “raiding” lowbie areas.
I am a Casual Gamer, I have seen MC, BWL, AQ20, Kara, Gruul, and Lurker. Look Me up (Brandywyne on Farstriders) I have had fun playing WOW I started 1 week after launch and will be there to see WOTLK. I am THE MAJORITY player type on most servers. Gold farmers and HardCore Raiders sicken me for the same reason, the have stopped playing a game for fun and have turned it in to some bastardization of a job!
I have had T.5, T1, and T2 gear I have T4 and hope to get T5 some day. I will get BADGES then I will get gear>T5 because it will help me see BT(maybe Hyjal)
Slayinggod says:
March 11th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Basically, Blizzard is doing two things with this patch. First, they are making it possible for those who are not dedicated to progression able to progress just as fast as those who are. Secondly, they are creating WoW Welfare.
This person need to know 85% of welfare recipients are single WHITE WOMEN WITH 1 TO 2 KIDS!!!!!! WOW welfare that is laughable statement. Show me some one who plays WOW on welfare and I will turn them over to the state for malingering (look it up)
So what it will be easer to gear up for raids, to get in to the instance and maybe down a boss or two. Good for us we play the same game and Blizzard sees this. You want to cry foul, fix the PVP players that take PVP gear in to PVE. If you prevent PVP’ers from using the arena/BG rewards in PVE, 75% of PVP would stop tomarrow.
It is good you care about some thing just stop ranting. 80% of current players will never express an opinion on this subject we will just keep playing. Blizzard knows this and will gladly scrap 4% of it’s player base to keep the 96%!!!!!!!!! happy and playing.
kinda says it all doesn’t it..
Look at that number… 96%…
Yay Blizzard for keeping the game accessable to me the Casual Gamer and giving me more to play with!! I win because WE as a whole are the reason YOU as an individual get to play in the first place.
Hardcore gamer sounds like some kinda extremist group any way (watch out the US may declare war on you. They have already stated they are searching for terrorists on WOW) Why would any business at all cater to the lowest % of the money influx in ANY game/service/job/market.
They won’t thats why nurfs happen and Blizzard will continue “dumb down” the game untill it appeals to the widest % of players, the Casual Gamer.
I say too you find a publisher and a developer to make your own MMO. After competing for a while you to will see why Blizzard does the nerfs and upgrades.
or just do like I did and quit wow because of all the elitists and just make your own private server for your own self and then see content that way. That way you can also test out other classes at 70 to see if you like playing that class at 70. I did I love it. I’ll prolly come back to the game when lich king comes out but if the attitudes of those elitists “I’m better than you because I raid 6 times a week.” Don’t stop I’ll quit again and go back to playing my private server on my own computer by myself.
I play wow or did and I’m on social security disability for extreme bipolarism. I take medications a lot which is one reason whY i can’t raid. Its also one of the reasons why I got kicked out of my guild because I couldn’t raid when they wanted me to even when I explained my medical condition
Scair says it all…
“Being able to admire Bret Farve’s accomplishments is far better in my book than looking around and seeing 75% of the people around me easily achieving what he worked hard for.”
Having said that… then yeah.. Blizz have to earn money.. to do that… keep as many as possible happy… it’s pure logic…
And for ppl bashing “elites” (I don’t see myself as elite) about getting a life… we do have one.. that we’re just better at managing our free time is just a proof of what.. that we actually strive for something without expecting someone to bring it to us on a silver platter without gettin off your lazy ass….
as commented somewhere above… what would you do if it wasn’t for the hardcore gamers in the first place going in there and actually make a guide that you could use to beat the encounter…. whine even more, than we the “hardcore” are now, for yet another nerf???
What it comes down to.. (for me) is that the welfare epics is good for casuals… I just don’t like the attitude that ppl saying “I’m epic, I deserve respect for being lazy”… ok.. side-tracked there a little… it comes down to blizz could atleast recognize our hard effort for testing their content before opening it to the rest of the player-base… for me a simple title would do the trick… and the “hand of adal” just doesn’t cut it….
I’d want something similar to the AQ opening title… exceptionally hard to get and not something my neighbour could get just for copying my work
Well i pay the same money as everyone else and as a casual player raiding is not my thing. So what if you had to get attuned for a dungeon you did it good for you. As a casual player that are playing to have fun and like a previous poster said i dont wanna go through a damn joblike interview before i can join a guild that do these raids. Its about time that Blizzard looked at the casual player. If you compare im sure you will find that the ratio of casual to hardcore raider will stack up to the casual side and tho i think that some sort of reward for these raiding guilds is appropriate im glad that people would get the chance to at least be able to get decent weapons, armor without having to buy it for totally stupid prices at ah. Im also sure that this move by blizzard would bring the casual community back to wow.
Face it. Not everyone can devote the millions of hours online just to finally hit lvl 70, max out your profs, then gear up for Kara, Gruul, BT, and ZA raids, through rep, BGs, and Arena Honor. It gets ridiculous and takes forever. People lose relationships that way. It’s getting bad.
I’m all for another way to get decent gear. Thank you Blizzard. I have a life outside of WoW and I don’t have to give it up to enjoy both worlds.
Now, could you PLEASE add more Tasty Fish pools during the fishing tournaments? Fighting over the few that pop up truly sucks. Wasting hours on my Sundays trying to catch a damn rare fish, week after week is getting old.
Also, any possible way to handle the rabid inflation occuring inside AH? What can we do to bring the prices back down and keep the gold spammers at bay?
Removing some attunement chains? Yes
Nerfing content like Magtheridon and making hard earned titles easy to get? NO
First of all, if it wasn’t for hard core gamers casual players wouldn’t have a chance at most of this game content anyway. For people who think that WoW would be more fun once the hard core gamers leave. Trust me, if they leave you will be leaving soon after. Those people pave the way for the rest of us.
Now as far as everyone seeing the new content. That is a point I honestly never thought of before. My guild never made it through BWL, so we never saw AQ40 or Naxx. Thats ok with me you know why? We didn’t do the work required in order to get that far. If I really wanted to see those instances I’m sure a hardcore raider has a movie up in world of warcraft movies.com. Yet I can see Blizz mentality about wanting everyone to experience the content.
Yet something should be done about the trailblazers. The people who actually rise up to the challenge of the game. I would suggest more then just a title. I think a set of trinkets/weapons only available to those who did the attunements and finished the raids before a certain date? Maybe special mounts. Cooler looking ones that require one second less to mount up.
As for myself. I will be leaving the game. I haven’t been a hardcore raiding since TBC came out. Mostly because of real life responsibilities, but also because I see how blizzard just nerfs everything to oblivion. This makes me not even want to bother putting the effort into it. I mean why bother? If I wait a bit blizzard will just hand me the gear.
One last thing. All you casual gamers complaining about wanting to see new content, how many of you guys would be willing to see the new content if you couldn’t get the gear it came with? Most casual gamers who complain about hardcore gamers are just ppl that want the same gear that they have without putting any work into it
If you think that it’s such a horrible thing to remove the attunement and hand out badge gear, then just get the rest of the like-minded people to just go on strike and not go into those raid dungeons until after Blizzard decides to nerf them. Then you won’t have all that hard work to do and can do it the same way everyone else down the road will be doing it.
By doing this it saves both sides from having to hear all the bitching, moaning, and groaning going on. This way we can all have fun together.
i think its ok to want everyone to see the content they make.
but i also feel that the hardcore should have somthing to show their accomlishments. and dont get me started on arena welfare epics.
People who think the game is going to be ruined.
Can I have your stuff when you leave? Don’t be shy, leave now to avoid the rush. All your efforts was worthless anyways, all your accomplishments dust.
Good riddance.
I was in a top raiding guild on my server. We wasn’t the best but we were top five for Horde. We had fun. We had wipes. We had whine. We had bitching.
But over all we had fun. Because we got to see the game. And we managed to beat bosses that other people didn’t.
The loot was nice, but to be perfectly honest with you. I would have done it without the loot. No problem.
Because, hard as it migth be for the mentally challenged to understand, loot doesn’t matter. It’s dust. Next dungeon you’ll see a better sword and you won’t keep your old junk lying around for sentimental value because you have limited inventory space and zillions of keys and quest items and reagents take up the slots.
The experience though, that lasted. That lasted longer than our guild which was torn apart by people not being able to stick to the guild in the slightest adversion. People who were more concerned about loot than fun or content. And to be honest… that’s a sucky attitude.
The game doesn’t become a diffrent game just because someone can get a few pieces of purple loot by the time your entire guild is kitted out with the highest tier. The game doesn’t becoma a diffrent game just because people who pay to play the bloody thing gets access to the stuff they pay for.
If you want to get content to yourself, fine… pay for half my monthly fee and you can have all my raiding content.
Yes it’s fine that people can get straight into Sunwell or is it…honestly I don’t look at myself hardcore in anyway or as an elite player, but still i saw AQ40, killed c’thun, saw most of Naxx etc. Now I’m the guildmaster/recruiter of a guild that just entered MH/BT.
I wish for a wider player base to recruit from of course cause some people just never learn how to fit in a raid with their chosen class. What badges will do for me…well I will probably get loads of applications that i need to spend my time deciphering and I will need to check up on people allot more than i already do. Cause honestly it doesn’t matter at all if you have full T6 or equivalent if you still haven’t got the needed skills for a T6+ instance. We have ditched loads of people by now that simply weren’t good enough for progressing. Failing to dps right targets, breaking sheeps, spamming wrong heals, pulling aggro and loads of other reasons…we all fail at some point but some people just don’t give a damn about not wasting 24 other peoples time.
Where do i wanna go with this…
Pros:
I will get a wider player base.
It will give more people a chance to get into the bigger (more progressed) guilds
It will give the masses a chance to feel “special”
Itemization becomes cheaper.
Cons:
GM/Recruiters will have to be even more nazi about the people that apply
More time, gold, pots, consumables in general will be wasted due to bad players
It will be a punch in the face for most MH/BT raids now…”I entered BT and all I got was this cheap title and a necklace”
People won’t pay to much attention on itemization since it’s easy to get new gems
Prices on auction houses will be bashed to hell, all alchemists will know how few flasks they actually sell after the flasks for marks was introduced.
i think that if changes like this devalue ones perceptions of achievement within a virtual game world that will not last then said individuals need to seriously consider turning off their computers, opening up there windows and letting the sun into their eyes and perhaps maybe even going outside once and awhile.
There are those who can and those who can’t. This changes nothing. I know that the casual people see 27,000 honor for a staff as being so daunting they will never even get started. I know people who I still can’t drag (yes drag) through the kara chain.
I fall between the casual and the hard core. I play a lot but I don’t raid much. This offers people like me who are able to put hours into the game to progress and to continue to have something to accomplish. Raiding should not be about the loot as much as it is about the encounters and accomplishments.
Lets face it, 150 badges for a sweet 2h weapon still requires a heck of a lot of effort. Figure at 5 badges per day thats 30 days of doing heroics. All for one piece of gear. Its still a lot of work guys.
I do agree that there are things that can be put into the 25 man content to make it more rewarding and to differentiate it from all the other ways of getting gear. Right now those things are crafting patterns and enchants. Blizz could surely add more of this type thing and even go so far as to greatly increase the amount of gold dropping and make those people flat out rich….
Casual gamer thinks game should cater to them and no one else.
Wow, that’s a new and original point-of-view, sure to convince everyone.
@cubert: I actually think the idea of a title that is difficult to attain for those who’ve had that content on farm for a while is a good idea. Perhaps something that requires you to have completed all the attunement quest chains as well as downed a specific Sunwell boss?
I’m not sure what the specifics of such a title should be, but it should be made so that the players who receive it are those who have spent a ton of time in those raids. That would be an immediate marker of that player’s accomplishments.
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For all those who are bashing hardcore players, don’t. Hardcore players push content for the rest of us. They give us something to work toward.
I don’t think Blizzard is or has any future plans to cater to that demographic, but they should invest some effort in making sure that they continue to offer content for those players. It’s a tricky balance to strike, especially when you’re trying to maximize the return on your development dollars.
I think you’re an idiot “Ron.” How many other MMOs have you played? Same question goes for everyone else who doesn’t think Blizz is completely f’ing up wow more and more every patch. WoW is in the bottom 25% of good mmos. They have money and have advertised more than any other MMO to date, therefore they have a sh*tpot of new players that have never expierenced playing a good MMO. That is the biggest reason why so many of you people are sticking up for this game. You don’t know what good gameplay or a good MMO are like. Most of us are just playing WoW because there hasn’t been a good MMO release since WoW came out. Lets see what happens with WAR and AoC. GL finding hardcore gamers to lead your raids, maintank your raids, and run your guilds at that point.
I honestly don’t see a problem with removing attunement quests. It’s not as if these new raiders will go into Hyjal and wtfpwn everything, the first boss would wipe them enough to stop them from trying. The real problem is when you make boss fights easier in the hope that casual gamers get to see it too. Getting to BT takes hard work, and though many may scoff at such raiders, claiming that they have a life and can’t spend every night raiding, the simple truth is that if you want something good, you have to work for it. If you want to spend your days zipping around in a big red Ferrari then you’re going to have to work very hard to get it.
If you say that since you pay the same subscription fees as a hardcore raider, you ought to experience the content that they can, then sure, you’re more than able to. Just play more, you’ll get there eventually. But if your other commitments stop you from doing that, how does that give you the right to experience content that takes months of hard work to acquire? Raiding isn’t all fun and games. I’ve experienced all the content up to hyjal, and honestly, it is a very tiring and frustrating experience. When you’ve wiped for the 20th time and your repair bills start becoming overwhelming, you start to wish you never tried in the first place. But that just makes the eventual victory even sweeter. And that’s just up to hyjal, i shudder to imagine how much effort it takes to clear black temple.
Simply put, if you want to experience end level content, then simple make time to work towards it. When Blizzard dumbs down the game and makes things easier to acquire, what is going to make me want to strive for better things? Why would i bother running raids 5 times a week if i knew that in a few months blizzard is going to make it all simple and idiot proof. If you want your game simple and idiot proof, then stick to 5 mans. Simple as that.
Can’t blame blizzard though. a corporation exists to earn money, and this is the best way for them to do that right now…
those who look at it one way, aren’t looking at it as a big picture..
you need to look at it, as blizzard as a business… as a pvper, as a raider… as someone who gets on for short times while the kids finally are sleeping…
you need to realize that because its a game that follows a story line generally doesn’t mean its going to do it all the time… because there are paying customers and blizzard needs to maintain good business..
as far as those raiders who feel that, certain places/bosses should only be seen by the “worthy” aka sank tons of time and effort alot of other folks haven’t to get to said place/boss… look at it like this…
your working your butt off at your 7.00 an hour job working 80 hours a week tryin to break a decent check, where someone else might work half that and make double what you are, with less education…
you would be upset, think life was unfair, and wonder how come you can’t get a slice of that pie so to speak.
now think of the person doing better then you saying to you “haha you gotta kiss this much butt to get where i am, you’ll never do it, you gotta be worthy!”
that type of attitude its stupid.. you should worry about you ! not others.. if you play a game to go somewhere someone else can’t… then you live in a fantasy world because that will never happen.
as for loyalty…. most people playing wow don’t know what respect/honor or loyalty is.
people who camp someone over and over for no reason, people who join a guild for the main reason of using to get gear, those who don’t go along with required guild functions such as ventrilo, or signups for raids for example.
those who try to make money off of every lil thing making it harder on those who can’t afford things.
folks who don’t realize its horde vs alliance…. you should be happy your side is doing great in whatever aspect your side is forging forward in.
those are examples of people who don’t have respect/honor/loyalty..
by giving folks the chance at MH/BT etc.. is giving blizz good business… giving those players who work hard in rl have families etc that really wanna see those contents but can’t, or those folks who can’t get into good guilds because of stupid invite requirements.. you should be looking at it like these few ways:
for pvp, any one on your side “horde or allie” you should be glad folks are getting better gear, so you win more.
for raiding, you should be happy more folks on your side are getting more progression done so your server looks better and your side looks better.
stop being a bunch of selfish babies!
be happy this isn’t under the old Ultima Online rules… you die you chance losing all of your stuff, be happy you can at least keep your crap when you get it!
I am a member of the top progressing guild on my server and I am really excited about 2.4. I think that it will be awesome that more players will be able to experience the top raid instances the blizz has put so much work into and hopefull have just as much fun as I did moving through them.
Its a game and you should play for fun…if 2.4 allows more people to have more fun playing the game then im all for it!!
After reading what Curse has to say about what Blizzard is doing, I can only say that i feel relieved.
I 100% agree to everything Ron said: Beeing against these new changes is selfish, instances shouldnt only be about loot!
The end-game content should be available to anyone, otherwise, its only going to waste.
People need to realise that this game is supposed to be FUN, for everyone, not just elitist guilds.
Nice move Blizzard. I’ts no wonder your MMO is at the top.
I look at it like this.
I’m part of a guild that has a strong base, but still is a casual guild. We don’t get the chance to spend hour after hour in game at the same time. That makes it difficult at best, if not impossible to get to the end game raids like Black Temple. Are we any less skilled than some of the high end raid guilds? No, not at all. In many cases, I’d put our players in with any of the those guilds, and you’d never be able to tell the difference, skill wise. Drop us into BT now, and we’d get annihilated.
While I agree that the nerfing of things is going to allow some people that have little skill to get to the end game things, it’s also going to let a large population of gamers, such as myself and my guild, who will do well (after getting our throats stepped on a few times I’m sure), but simply could not dedicate time as a group to finish all the attunments. Many of our players do log a lot of time in game, and have a good skill base, but as a group we don’t have a huge amount of time together.
This patch is aimed at that type of player, mostly. I wasn’t whining about not seeing that content. I figured we’d get there…eventually. This patch gives this type of player the break we need to see this content earlier. It also makes it so people will get a chance to see it before the expansion, so they don’t have underutilized content, like Naxx.
I have nothing against the hardcore raider. They spend their time raiding, because that’s what they like doing. They do pave the way, certainly. We should recognize that effort.
At the same time, the hardcore raider should realize that in order for Blizzard to make the new challenge that they can tackle, Blizzard needs revenue, and the hardcore gamers, by themselves, aren’t enough of a monetary base to let them do that. They need for there to be the “middle class” gamer, because if that bulk of the gamers that play started to leave, there wouldn’t be any further challenges created for the hardcore raider. Blizzard just made the game more attractive for that middle of the road gamer, which in turn is going to allow them to create more, challenging content.
Like it or not, both type of gamer needs the other
Another thing to look at is this. How long is it going to take for people to get geared up via badges? Even if it goes quickly, (remember these are casual players, we’re sumizing here) we’re looking at a month or two (hypothetically). Then how long will it take for them to get good enough to take out the end game stuff? Another couple of months? I think that’s generous. By the time the truly casual player (not the middle of the road player like myself and my guild) gets through BT, I suspect that hardcore raiders will have new challenges to meet, offered up by Blizzard. And by the time those challenges are conquered, the expansion will most likely be out, leading to more challenges.
Hehe i don’t mind the game one way or another. I think they should open up after a bit and let everyone experience it. I’m kinda hardcore/medicore. I play every single night usually about 3 hours sometimes 4 if my gf and kid are gone.
or any other game company for that matter.
I think they should always make a super hardcore dungon every now and then and have something a title or something that shows the few that have completed it. That way u keep the small crowd of hardcore happy. Also the casual’s win too.
Yes i have been playing since the beginning. But to me opening it up to everyone is the win situation. Because i used to be in marketing for a company that sells gaming etc. Hardcore make up about 10% lol. 60%+ or more are the avid gamers. basicly hardcore is the smallest percentage. To market to them =’s death sry. But i do agree they should make a super hardcore dungon and a few other things that are hardcore only. Side story’s that way no one will miss out on the “lore” . But even if they did this for the hardcore’s they would still complain. In the end you can’t please everyone and you gotta go where the money is. Because without the money there is no blizzard
Frankly i cannot see how any raid guild or hardcore player do anything for me or any other casual player. I quest, I kill the monster i earn my xp and earn my own gear. If me and some of my friends want to go into a dungeon we do it. What do we need your permission hell no we don’t. And yes hardcore players care only for themselfs and their guilds what they do and dont do have no effect on me whatsoever so please stop blowing your own trumpet and think i will stop playing if the hardcore raiders leave the game. The quests will still be there i will still be able to get to level 70, 80 whatever. The point for me is the actual leveling of a char not to rush to as high as possible just so i can go wack some boss in some dungeon over and over again thats just plain boring i see no point in that whatsoever
First off, people saying they wont invite badge gear-wearers into raids because they have no “skill”
what skill do you need to spam the same buttons in boss fights.
tanks spam shield block, big deal
warlocks spam 1 button, shadow bolt
healers spam….heal
any different from 5 mans?
what boss fight is identical?
therefore if no boss fight is identical, and you learn the new encounters, killing vashj or kael doesnt matter.
o btw… its a game. go log on to wow and do ur dailies instead of blogging with your qq bllshit.
Have anyone noticed that this is a MMO and it evolves? When new content is added the old content gets obsolete. Wrath of the Lich King is coming and the old content will be obsolete. Hardcore guilds/players will move to the new content, and the most casual guilds/players will get the opportunity to see the old content before they move on.
All the ppl complaining about Blizz move.. have you asked yourselves if you’re even coming back to the old content when the new expansion is out? I mean you have cleared all the game, aren’t you? Then move on and let the non-elite players take a go in that part of the game.
You’re probably going to be the pioneers on the new content, so who cares?
The article is wrong about one point:
It says the only ones that think this is wrong are the hardcore raiders that have more or less already completed the game. There are some people playing wow that cares about something as simple as game mechanics, the game making sense and some things not being changed all the time. I’m one of them and I’ve yet to set foot in Black Temple. I think this is wrong, wrong, wrong, simply because it should be an accomplishment to progress, it shouldn’t be handed to you on a plate – basically that makes the game hollow and even less logical.
WoW started out as a game in which you had to put in an effort to get anywhere. That’s why some of started playing it. It made sense. It was a universe we could spend some of our time in and when we accomplished something we felt good. Some might argue that this is just a game. But what is football, then? It requires skill and hard work to get far in football and when your team wins a match or a title you’re happy. And yet, it’s only a game. Same goes for WoW. If the ones that work harder and have more skill are not rewarded they will find other things to do that rewards them. If WoW was only played by the socalled casuals it would be a far less interesting game for everyone – and that’s where it’s heading right now…
…and to all of those saying that:
a) WoW is about having fun
- Nobody can disagree. But some people think it’s funny and rewarding to be rewarded for showing dedication and skill. Should they not be allowed to have fun?
b) The game is not about loot.
- What? The game is indeed about loot. If the game was only about pressing buttons faster than the next guy how would it be interesting in the long run? The game is about building your character while gaining more skill. We’ve seen how PvP has been reduced to an advanced form of Tekken where long-term dedication no longer ment anything. The question is: If gear (and the work to get it) does not really matter, why is it even in the game? Why not just make a game that is 100% “skill”-based, then? Oooh, I know – because there are already thousands of such games around…
c) I can only play 2 hours a day
- Don’t play WoW. All you’re doing is taking part in ruining a great game for those that care about these kind of activities. Play an actiongame, drive a car in a race, whatever. Just don’t play WoW.
To those people telling the “raiders” quit if you don’t like it, I remember when the “casual” players were told the same thing when you all were whining. Hypocrites.
My 2 cents, 40 man raids were harder than the current 25 mans. Guild hoping was not an issue pre-TBC.
Yes, grinding rep sucked, but you did it to improve your ability in Raids, like getting the AD rep for the shoulder enchant.
I’ll still play and btw, you don’t have to be a hardcore raider to get to high level content, it just takes a little longer so stop using that lame excuse.
I don’t see why removing attunement quests is a bother, If you want recognition for your hard work ‘champion of the naaru’ and such titles should get you that. Also people seem to forget that just because the instance is now easier to get into does not make it easier to complete and if a guild can’t even do kara/gruul then they won’t be able to do Hyjal/BT so it doesn’t matter, if they can then a good portion of them would eventually get there, all these changes simply allow the casual guilds to progress without boring the hardcore while the guilds with less time on WoW ‘catch up’.
To those whinging about gear, is that the only reason you raid? If gear is all you care about surely it would be easier to just grind S3, so you must raid for the experience and/or the lore (which by the way is messed up and one of the reasons I myself have become annoyed with WoW) and therefore you have already received your reward for your troubles. As grundy has pointed out, there are much bigger flaws in modern WoW than this patch.
I can see blizz’s viewpoint. I can also see the casual players viewpoint. In the end, it’s about $$’s. Not about time and effort. Not about what anyone has accomplished or how much they enjoyed the game content.
WoW has become less of an immersion and more of an arcade game. Let’s face it, for those of us that use wow as our main hobby, it’s failing slightly. But the majority of players don’t want to put the time in because they have other things that are of more interest. A player that plays 1 hour a week pays the same as someone who plays 40 or 50.
Immersion costs development money and less player base. Arcade action costs less and is designed more for the masses. Blizzard has done a decent job blending the two. It’s just when they merge really close the sides jump at each other and the drama begins like now.
well, being one of hte casuals (used to raid ~30 hours a week tho) I guess I’d be lucky if I ever see 1 or 2 of those badge rewards… who do you seriously think is ever getting a lot of these, other than the current raiding crew that will get badges for killing bosses?
and attunements? those not prepared will be killed by trash anyways, this just makes it easier to bring alts or new players…
The issue for me isn’t that less hardcore players shouldn’t be allowed to see content, of course they should, but let them progress through the instances from Karazhan to Sunwell themselves. Thats why its called RAID PROGRESSION.
To begin I have played WoW as a raider for . I have a Scarab Lord and 3 welfare epic toons that are my mains on the domain I play most. I also have a GF and a life when not raiding to kill any stupid comments that might appear in response to this post.
While I can sympathize with the work that goes into being able to simply walk into BT, Nerfs like this are almost required for more gamers to be able to see the content. Its not dumbing it down its just opening it up. Frankly if I had to run another group through the Ony chain while doing AQ opening set I would have opened up a wrist. Attunements suck they keep people out of areas because of time available to game not because of skill level. I have a total of 3 alts on the same server I opened AQ on, I cant walk into ony on 2 of them or BWL without someone opening UBRS. Does this have anything to deal with skill or that I might not be able to handle the encounters…..
The saddest thing about TBC other then the horrible scaling of gear, was Naxx or rather that it became pointless to see it. I loved Naxx and I will again retooled, that TBC was released and ours was the only guild on my server to see it really kills the point of having a instance.
The hardcore raiders get a bandaid in the form of titles. Its not going to make up for the gear but ohh well nothings perfect. If you finish the vials q with 2.4 you are now “Hand of A’dal”. Not perfect but good enough. I would only make one change to the title system and its this – When you nerf the content make the title non available. “Illidans head is on my keychain” title should be included in the game fyi
As Far as the badge loots get over it, people whining about this don’t sound very hardcore to me. I dont even want to bother lvling a 70 these days let alone gear through intensive rather boring raiding that I have already done on other toons. Show me a hardcore raider that wants to bother going into SSC again and I’ll show you someone lying to themselves. My guild is farming BT for loot not glory – we can go in kill everything walk out with gems and epics. You wanna run 30+ heroics to get a weapon bonzia have fun
In the end badges level the playing field and while it takes a bit shorter time to lvl a toon and equip with the gear, you forget the benefits to raiders – it gives me a bigger pool of possible raiders I can pull from. We don’t have to run alts through SSC and TK anymore thank god. And noobs while in gear like BT gear are still going to be judged on if they can down a boss or just farm honor.
Just don’t nerf final bosses and legendary toys will still only go to those that earn them. Screw the epics =) later I have a bug to ride
For those of you who worked your asses off and put the time in (because you could) and got to where you are now, why can you not just be content with yourself… you know you did it, you can be proud, why do you feel the need to show off, why do you want everyone else to be inferior to you? you know you did it, they know you did it and they didnt, just deal with it. I am in a guild now with some of the most talented and skilled players I have ever seen in this game, they could easily have made it into BT and Hyjal months ago, but because of guild politics the original guild disbanded and now they only do 10 man instances. Now I would love one of you “elitists” to tell them that they do not deserve the gear that they can get in 2.4, and that they are noobs… they are just as skilled (maybe even more so) than you, its just circumstance.
I have read often here that people think their time is being wasted now and it is worth nothing… you decided to put that time in, and you did it so that you could get to those bosses and that gear before anyone else, and you accomplished it. Be proud of what you did. You do deserve recognition for what you did, but who are you to try and deny that from everyone else? Did you think the game was just gonna stay like this for ever, are you gonna complain when WotLK comes out and your epics are replaced with greens again like when BC came out? Then you will once again have the same gear as everyone else who is leveling to 80.
Which ever way you look at it, Blizzard has the final word, like in all the nerfings classes and instances have received in the past.
And for those who say that people with lower gear are all noobs and dont deserve the gear, we are talking about people here, who are able to learn. You also had that lower gear at one stage, people will get the gear and then learn the instances, and will get better. As for the people who said that they wont allow those “noobs” into their guild (raidleader), did you ever think that people wouldnt want to join your guild because the game is not enjoyable when you have to raid with people like you, who always think they better than everyone else? You are a bunch of morons, you could be denying some great players into your guild, I know I would hate to raid under those circumstances, I’m fortunate enough to have found a great bunch of people to raid with.
I am a semi-hardcore raider, because of my current situation, it is impossible for me to raid everynight, although I am changing my situation so that I can. I am a competitive gamer, and I would love to be able to raid all day every day. That does not mean that I would think myself better than anyone else, and that certainly does not mean that I would try and stop anyone from experiencing all the amazing and fun content that I have seen, in fact it would be the exact opposite, I find just as much gratification (if not more) then taking my friends and guildies into new instances for the first time, and helping them gear up and become better players. In the end I am helping the guild and myself ultimately, because those people will help me get further as well, and help me get better gear and we can all enjoy it as we progress.
World of Warcraft is easy. This game isn’t hard. I was in a hard core raiding guild back before there was a ZG/RAQ/AQ/Naxx. UBRS was still a 15 man instance. My guild had MC/BWL/RAQ/ZG on farm. We were still working on last guy in AQ and we had 6 bosses on farm in Naxx. We werent the top guild worldwide that is for sure, but we were top guild horde side on the server. We had better gear than everyone else and raided 30 hours a week. 6 5 hour days. The game wasn’t hard. The boss fights werent hard. The hardest part was gearing up for the fights, getting the right make up of people on line for the fight, and then getting all 40 of those people to pay attention for the entire fight.
Killing bosses is not an accomplishment of skill, it is an accomplishment of organization and perseverance. Most of those upset with blizzard are worried that people wont inspect them and say wow anymore. They wont be able to say, we are part of the few geeks that devote 20+ hours a week to raiding, henceforth we are better players than you are, look at our gear and accomplishments.
Some threw fits when PvP gear was made more accessible and arena gear was actually competive with the high tier, those players wanted to have the best gear in PvP so they could dominate other players who didn’t have a large guild to drag them around end game content to get gear. PvP and arena is vastly better now because of the changes.
Some threw fits when it went from 40 and 20 man raids to 25 and 10 man raids. End game raiding is now open up to many more guilds because of these changes and many more people see content because of it. The raiding game is better off because of it.
This change allows people to see content before it is deemed worthless. I personally would like to see a normal mode and heroic mode of raid content to allow PuGs to go in and see the end game dungeons. Give something extra for those who go in on heroic mode like you do for normal instances. That way everyone can see content. 15 man PuG UBRS was kind of fun, and I had been on 20 man ZG Pugs before, it is possible.
But yeah, like was said earlier, cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. Sorry there are no cheats for you to come in and dominate people so you have to go out and get the best gear possible, heaven forbid other players get the same gear and show you you aren’t as “skilled” as you thought you were. You just had more time to play.
not many ppl will go to BT even if the attunement is gone. i mean, why should they? just farm badges and buy ur gear instead of going in an instance that takes like 4hours to kill all bosses(when theres no wiping) and the gear aint superior. just run karazhan and ZA with a good group and you got like 40 badges each 3 days. its less time for just about the same gear.
dont get me wrong.the changes made with the 10 and 25 man dungeons is an improvement. but now that every1 is getting epics so easy it’s just not that fun for me to play the end game part. if ppl really wanted to see end, they should put some effort in it to get there. its simple.
the idea of normal and heroic raids is a nice twist to separate the “elitist” from the regular gamers of WoW. both groups get their way.
I think this has been said a few times, but to illustrate my point, I will only point out that everyone who has played this game “since day one” has experienced the gradual degradation and diminution of your achievements over time. By this I mean, for example, those who raided for months and months pre-TBC saw those months of finally getting 8/8 of T1 or T2 or T3 going *poof* within 3 lvls of 60 in TBC.
Look — we all see the “hardcore” types preening around in IF or wherever, wearing T5 or T6. On my server, we see members of the top Alliance raiding guild preening around on their ZA Bear Mounts — what’s the message “Look everyone — here’s my new toy. Something we have achieved and you won’t get”. The fact is I feel that those people can do that since a lot of us don’t really want to invest the time and effort to raid 7 days a week. A lot of us have lives outside of WoW. To those who want to make a commitment, you have that momentary right to flaunt your accomplishment — that is until enough players reach critical mass, and more and more players get that same reward. And then, all of a sudden, that Bear Mount is as special as it was — but still you had your 15 minutes of fame. As Patton says at the end of the move “All glory is fleeting.”
To me this is no different than the first hunter who got the epic bow and staff (another quest that was nerfed to allow more people the ability to finish it) or the first Locks, Pallys or Druids to finish their epic mount quests. I was one of those players to do all of the above on different toons — not the first — but I did most of them when they were “hard” to finish. Now the Hunter Epic bow is obsolete, and any Lock or Pally with friends who are lvl 70 can knock those quests off in 15 to 30 minutes (and I’ve helped people do it — it is sad compared to the wipes we had when doing it at level 60). But again, life is all about changes, and things DO get easier.
I am one of those players that is between “hard core” and “casual”. I REALLY want to experience Naxx, BT and MH, if for any reason, to experience the lore and the encounter. I don’t think it denigrates the accomplishments of those who worked hard to do it the first times by allowing more people access to those events. Don’t worry, you can still ride around Ironforge on your Bear Mounts.
Here’s the thing that the hardcore raiders seem to miss: They’ve done it–and there is a new 25 man opening up with even better gear, as I understand it, in the patch. Because there’s new content, they can move on to the Sunwell, while the more casual players can pick up the leftovers and try out the old BT/MH content. Sorry, I just don’t see the problem there. I remember how mad a lot of raiders were when BC came out and suddenly they were picking up greens and quest blues that outclassed their hard-earned epics. Sure, T3 lasted until 67-68, but not much longer.
I understand the feeling of achievement, but as a game progresses the old ultimates become devalued (that’s the nature of any constantly growing and expanding world). It’s just the same old tired complaint on a new day.
The OP in the “not so good” article is not only wrong, he’s also speaking for groups of players in WoW (the HC) that he doesnt have any knodledge about and he also seems to find it nessesary to describe the HC player as some kind of socialy-challanged played that is out to destroy the fun in WoW for him.
He fails to understand that the attunemts beign lifted is not a problem, I’ve hardly see anyone complain about it nor do I see any problem with it myself, it should only benefit the game and the raiding scene.
His example of Naxx is almost funny, yes, Naxx wasnt used optimal, and yes, the long gear-up path to it was part of the reason, but the fact that TBC came and killed of raiding for 99% was the biggest reason for sure. IF naxx would have been just an other step in the gear-up progress for raiding, a lot of people would have seen it, of course not as many as MC, BWL, AQ, but that is only natural. This also doesnt mean the expansion wasnt needed, as the gear-up path to Naxx was starting to get to long, no shortcuts were in place to allow people to get to Naxx faster.
His arguments that badge gear is needed for players to reach this content sais enough about his raiding experience. Raiding today isnt about gear anymore, gear is everywhere, its so easy and most important, it’s of a higher level then that you should have while fighting a boss (if you arent on the edge of new content). Raiding is all about having enough dedicated people there, that are willingly and also somewhat capable of raiding.
The problem with badge gear, badge gems, S3 and soon S4 arena gear is the following:
Q. Why not just let casual players get rewards comparable to those from raids?
A. It would be almost impossible for us to do, and this is a philosophical decision. We need to put a structure in place for players where they feel that if they do more difficult encounters, they’ll get rewarded for it. As soon as we give more equal rewards across the board, for a lot of players it will diminish the accomplishment of killing something like Nefarian. My favorite times in the development cycle are when there are encounters that are close to being defeated but have not yet been beaten. It really creates a sense of awe among the players that there is something big and truly dangerous in the world. But it would be very disappointing if the items found on Nefarian were the same thing you could get in your nightly Stratholme run. [Stratholme is a much easier five-person dungeon.]
AS blizzard said themself about a year ago, there has to be some kind of sense of being rewarded and wanting to put in the efford to raid. Now that gear is so easely obtained by so many (semi) solo ways, do you think it’s getting easier to get those 25 raiders to show up and raid ? No, a lot of people will choose the easy way, others will find the thing they love, raiding, not worth the time anymore as a new expansion commes rendering all their gear worthless, and more reasons to not show up, but in the end you’ll be standing there with 15 guys and unable to raid.
Essentially what they’re doing is this: letting the hardcore players do it first, then letting the casuals have a shot. To me, the heart of the game is learning new content. Once you’ve conquered it the only thing to do (in PVE at least) is move on to more, or if there’s nothing left, unsubscribe until there is more. In the end, the hardcore players will always see it first, and the casuals will see it later.But the hardcore will still get to be proud of their dedication. My friend and I who are both fairly casual laugh about how things have changed since “back in the day.” But it’s fun, and we’re proud that we were both warlocks when warlocks used to SUCK bad.
Moreover, I’d much rather it be this way than spend countless weeks accumulating fire resist gear just to be able to survive for 2 seconds on Rag. That wasn’t fun, this is. Sure it’s easier, but fun it the ultimate goal for most people.
I can’t say I find the removal of attunements bad. A bit of attunement would’ve been nice, simply for the sake of being able to say “I’m attuned”, but it’s really not needed.
However, making gear – which is usually considered the reward for raiding, besides seeing the content – that is equivalent or better than what is attained in raids easily available seems illogical.
If you could get top-notch gear by any of the two following methods, which would you pick: Gather 24 friends, learn how to defeat terrible monsters over the course of a weeks, potentially consuming numerous flasks -OR- gather 4 random people and go to Heroics for a couple of days, maybe attend a Karazhan “pick-up-group” just for a little boost?
One obviously takes more effort, ability, and investment than the other, yet the reward is the same or worse.
To make the same comparison for PvP-oriented players: What if the Arena sets could be bought for 100g a piece and with no Rating requirement? You know, to make them available to a bigger audience and let people get into the Arena spotlight a bit easier.